Where we are not 'winning'

by ISP 8 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ISP

  We have won the war……..here on the net! Well I think we have so far as reasoned debate is concerned BUT we are a long way off in other areas.

  One thing Dubs have, or they perceive they have is a worldwide unity that is unparalleled in the world today. The unity is at a price in terms of respective individual freedoms as well as commonsense, reason and at times truth. But I believe for many it is worth the price. It perpetuates and supports the hope that a God will restore mankind. I have spoken to many who are not interested in argumentation on what’s right and wrong. They would not be concerned that they could not win the argument. They would not be concerned either if the end did not come. At the end of day they will conclude that you can find fault if you want but it is a ‘people’ thing. They have a community of people that will stick together and provide comfort and support.

  Bear in mind that many Dubs have below average prospects and lifestyles and that to ‘belong’ to a wider group has a feel of security about it.

  They will also point to us ‘enlightened’ ones and say we are no better off in that we now have nothing. No hope for the future and no community to fall back on when in need. As I have a young family, I have to say that I have no choice but to give them the best opportunity they can possibly have in life and to me that means an abandoning of a JW life.

  I feel somewhat uneasy when talking to such ones as I have done lately. I feel that I could take away everything they have and leave very little in its place….other than the truth that is. One person remarked that he could not fault the JW lifestyle. He had brought his family up that way and all of his children are in their teens and are exemplary. They enjoy a large amount of wonderful friends and he said the world offered nothing to children. He was not interested in hearing anything against the WTS. It simply didn’t matter.

  It made me think, however successful we think we are ‘winning the war’ on the net or elsewhere……we probably will not make any impact on many of those remaining. I also would point out that some of the ‘hate’ threads that appear on the board do nothing to show some that there is a better caring community out here.

  Any thoughts?

  ISP
• 

  individual

  You made the comment that one person remarked that you could not fault the JW lifestyle. This brought to mind a statement by an elder to me that even if 'the truth' was wrong it was still a wonderful way of life for myself and my young family.

  My own thoughts were - what is good about keeping your children up until 9.30/10pm because of meetings? Also the amount of work involved in just BEING a JW, the sheer amount of effort especially for young families both financially and time wise was all consuming. Also - what is good about bringing up my children on a belief that instills fear and guilt, the constant reminders of "if you do not do this...",
  the fear of seeing your fellow man destroyed at Armageddon, the fear of 'am I doing enough' that not only affected me but also my children offset any small benefit of belonging to a religious community.

  For my family the best thing was to leave, as far as moral guidance for my children I will teach them to think - they know right from wrong without help from the Watchtower. My wife and I know that we cannot convince any others in the congregation of our views. They shield themselves in a cocoon that they feel secure in, they do not want to consider alternative views for fear it will shatter their illusion of 'the prize' - perfect life in a perfect system.
• 

  Billygoat

  Individual,

  I'm glad to hear about your experiences - I look forward to hearing more in the future. You will learn and heal more on this board than you could ever dream of! Welcome! I'm glad you're here.

  Billygoat
• 

  Simon

  It is one of the things that both of our parents have come back with - whatever evidence of wrongdoing and deceit by the WTS they always claim that it's 'still the best way of life' and good to bring up the kids.

  I disagree.

  Yes, I was brought up with 'morals' but the WTS do not have a monopoly on this, neither do religious people in general however much they like to think and pretend that they do.

  I did however suffer an awful lot because of the WTS. Is that a good way to be brought up? I don't think so.

  I don't intend to bring my lads up in a mind-control cult because it isn't best for them. I can still bring them up to know right and wrong, to look at facts and use logic and sound reasoning to work out if something is true or not. I will tell them what other people believe and about the different religions but I wont push them to believe something that I haven't thoroughly researched myself.
• 

  ISP

  Hi Individual,

  I agree 100%. We have voted with our feet. To confirm matters, I suppose we received a call from a young sister who is still in the Org, married but receiving therapy for sexual abuse she recieved as a child. She has attempted suicide recently. There is not much to cheer her regarding her JW lifestyle/upbringing. She still believes it is the truth though........

  ISP
• 

  individual

  ISP - Concerning this sister, I understand the feeling of not only being depressed in 'the truth' but also feeling it IS 'the truth'. I was a JW for 25 years and for a lot of that time I felt depressed. Even though at times I wanted to leave I couldn't because I felt it MUST be 'the truth'. It was only when I recognised it was because I WANTED it to be 'the truth' and that wanting it to be truth didn't mean it WAS - it was only then that I was able to leave.

  From observation it seems to be the main desire that keeps an individual in - this feeling of wanting it to be true, the promised reward is so attractive that it overwhelms any doubts until something removes the blinkers. The internet has been a 'Godsend' at enabling people to see the real truth from a third person perspective.

  The main problem to overcome is JWs refusal to look at anything that may instill doubts in the society or its scriptural interpretation.
  They so desire for it to be true. The hardest thing is to break through this self reinforcing deception, being deceived yet wanting to be deceived. It took me 25 years.
• 

  ISP

  Hey Individual + Simon...........come in 'Chat'........and any others of course!

  ISP
• 

  messenger

  I find you words to be well spoken as to this issue. I have many former friends who are jw's and they would reply much the same as your friend did. I think the real issue is, do you want to live a lie or live the truth? The difference might be compared to living at home or being on your own. At home you have mom and dad to look out for you, but you also have to accept the loss of freedom that goes along with it. When you are on you own you have the freedom but then the responsibility that goes with it has to be addressed also. Most people who are normal choose to not live with their parents for life and take their chances with the responsibility freedom offers.

  To be a teenager and a witness is no easy task, if you live by wt rules. No music, No movies, No dating, No freedom. If you do make a mistake you have the public humiliation heaped on you by everyone you know when you face congregation disipline. If you get df you lose everything and everyone. This cannot be considered a healthy way to live. Guilt, fear, hypocrosy, double life, anger, the feeling you are never good enough, just to name a few. Any witness who has come to accept these things as a way of life has no idea the damage they are doing to their children, themselves and their friends. To help them out is at least giving them a chance to live a normal life.

  There are many families with loving parents and well adjusted children who were never jw's, to believe otherwise is to believe wt propaganda. In my opinion living each day with guilt over having not placed enough literature, believing God is going to probably kill you for not being good enough certainly shuold not be considered a healthy mental outlook on life. Just like a moonie or any other cult member, they all smile and think they are happy, they have found the best way of life. Sadly they are to be pitied for having their minds taken over by evil corporations who are simply using them to make money. When they are all used up the cult has no use for them any longer. Many older jw's discover this when they are old, alone, with no support and can do nothing about it.

  You speak of trying to win a war, I think of war in a way where you have to kill people to get anywhere. Are we really at war? Do we really have to kill wt to win? Does that not smack of wt theology? I say this to not make anyone feel bad, but isn't the real issue about love for people, education, healing, healthy relationships, and helping people grow from within? Perhaps a better defination would be an outreach, assistance, or education program. We try to help those who want help and for those who do not want help, try to make them understand the reason they need it so badly. It is a worthy cause and one that certainly would have God's blessing. It is simply not a matter of winning people to your way of thinking, but instead teaching them how to think, without someone doing it for them. Then they can make their own decisions about how to live life and please God.

  You can never stop the cults, they will go on forever. But if you have a way to help someone out, anyone, it at least is giving them a chance to be free, have choices and not live a lie.
• 

  Number 6

  They will also point to us ‘enlightened’ ones and say we are no better off in that we now have nothing

  Firstly we ARE enlightened. We have seen the Watchtower organisation for what it is: a manipulative cult that demands loyalty to itself ahead of the closest human relationships on the grounds that it is God's only channel of communication today with humans. An organisation that has destroyed millions of lives both emotionally and physically with its shunning and blood policy to name but two.

  Secondly we do not have nothing. We have the peace of mind that being aware of the first point above we can with a clear conscience go about our daily lives on a level playing field with the rest of humanity in the knowledge that our very existence does not depend on obeying such trivial regulations like a field service quota or meeting attendance record or any number of other Watchtower regulations.

  Finally the point about still staying in because of the lifestyle. My upbringing and life were made a living hell up to the age of 21 directly and still are indirectly because of what I went through as a JW.

  So I will turn that assertion on its head. IF it transpired that the Watchtower was actually correct all along, I would rather myself and my family have the life we have just now and die at Armaggeddon; than live the living death that is being one of Jehovah's Witnesses today.

  6

  I am not a dub I am a free man.
  (The poster formerly known as "Mr. Angry")