View of People with Disabilities...

by rwagoner 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • rwagoner
    rwagoner

    Ok friends.....multi part question for you....

    1) What do you think is the view of the jw organization toward people with disabilities ?

    2) What are your personal views ? (pwd as workers, parents, objects of affection, intimate partners)

    ie: would you date someone with a disability? would you want your child to marry someone with a disability? would you hire a PWD ?

    3) Do you think your experience with the jws affected your attitudes toward tose who were different ? (race, disability, etc)

    4) Do you see similarities or differences in the acceptance of PWD vs race, gender, orientation...etc ?

    Now I am a person with a disability myself (birth defect) but spend a great deal of time researching disabled history, acceptance (or not) of disabilities and differences and I am genuinely interested in your honest opinions. No need to sugar coat things for me, I am about as far from politically correct as you can get.

    Thanks for your help with my research.....

    RGW

  • franklin J
    franklin J

    personaly, I have no objections to my children marrying anyone with a physical disability.....it is my childs choice of companionship. Why would I question that?

    I designed residential "skysrapers" in NYC during the 1980s when the Disabilities Act was passed. In NYC it was call "local law 58" and made it mandatory that any "multiple dwelling" of more than 4 units had to comply with current; specific ADA standards; specifically bathroom and kitchen clearences; radius; clear floor area; kitchen workspace height and door approach clearences. Of course, the obvious of ramping; etc.

    It was a big financial step for the developers ( Trump being one of them) because the rest of the industry had not yet responded to supply the goods to make this happen. It was not all just a design solution; someone had to make a work counter 34" high; etc.

    Many items were already standard institutional fixtures ( hosptials have always complied), like grab bars. And while we did not have to install grab bars; there had to be specific wall blocking for a possible future installation.

    When the ADA legislation became National; it was suddenly all the rage to have ADA compliant ANYTHING.

    Every job I work on now is fully ADA compliant and accessable.

    It gives you much respect for what our handicap fellow Americans have to deal with.

  • franklin J
    franklin J

    continuing....

    My experience with JWs was that there was no negative response to an physically disabled individual; except the typical " oh he needs the new system to be healed" etc. I find that very condescending and trite.

    Although the handicapped individual was still expected to put some time in the field service; and using the disability as an excuse to not preach would not be tolerated.

    I have never encountered any negative impression in business concerning anyone with a physical disability...

  • Gretchen956
    Gretchen956
    1) What do you think is the view of the jw organization toward people with disabilities ?

    The only thing I remember seeing/hearing, was how they would be healed in the New Order. I think I remember an illustration in one of the older publications of people running, throwing away crutches and getting up out of their wheelchair. Of course that shows a pretty narrow definition of disability, but I suppose the easiest to illustrate.

    2) What are your personal views ? (pwd as workers, parents, objects of affection, intimate partners)

    Personally I'm in awe of most people with disabilities who do things I take for granted and whine and moan about occasionally, and who never complain about it. We have a person where I work in supported employment, which is a program to hire people with moderate cognitive disabilities and give them an opportunity to do minor office tasks. Matt is an absolute JOY to be around. The happiest nicest young man, always thankful when someone gives him something to do. We're so happy/lucky to have him.

    Personally I have always looked at the individual that lived inside the head or body first before outward appearances. Would I date someone with a disability, no doubt about it. Since I'm not single, though, its not likely to happen anytime soon.

    3) Do you think your experience with the jws affected your attitudes toward tose who were different ? (race, disability, etc)

    It certainly made me more sensitive towards people who are "different." I always felt like I was on the outside looking in as a child in the organization. Outside the "in" crowd because of a spiritually weak father so wasn't able to associate with witness kids, and not able to associate with "worldly" people. There were also times when we were made fun of, threatened, had rocks thrown at us, etc. So I have experienced first-hand what discrimination and hatred felt like. No wonder I stayed in the closet so long! At any rate, I don't look at any of those things when finding friends, again we're all humans with a bit different packaging.

    4) Do you see similarities or differences in the acceptance of PWD vs race, gender, orientation...etc ?

    No I definately think there is discrimination, although many times in the case of discrimination its because of ignorance. I think it would be a great idea for everyone to "live" with a disability for a day or a week and see how difficult simple tasks are. Be a good reminder. Of course all discrimination is ignorance based so I suppose it isn't all that different after all.

    RGW, My department handles disability issues here in Washington State. I could put you in touch with some material for your reading pleasure if you like!

    Sherry

  • rwagoner
    rwagoner

    Thanks to those who have replied so far....

    for a little more background on me personally....Born with a degenerative bone disease (sort of like bad arthritis) - had very supportive family and friends growing up, always told that I could do or be anything. Experienced discrimination for the first real time when I tried to get work but finally found a job as a 911 dispatcher. Met and dated lots of women but most could not get past the disability and wheelchair. They all wanted to be friends and hang out but were looking for a stud for anything more intimate.

    From my research those feeling are totally natural....it is survival of the fittest...we look for someone who will be a strong healthy mate and produce healthy children.

    I met a wonderful woman who loves me for who I am, not how I look when I walk. When we told her family we were getting married her mother totally freaked out. He daughter deserved more than to be nurse maid for a cripple as I got older. She was totally opposed to the wedding but she had to deal with it. (she later committed suicide -- unrelated to me or my disability)

    I was always offended by the jws who harped on healing and curing the poor invalids, like living with a disability was the worst thing imaginable. After leaving the org I went on to get an extended education (disability studies and education) and was lucky to be 1 of only 150 people in the US to be trained on ADA implementation and compliance by the US DOJ and EEOC. I now own a successful national consulting firm that offers Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) compliance assistance and disability awareness courses.

    Franklin: I would be interested in chatting if you are an architect. While we are doing quite well, we lost well over $1 mil in jobs this year because, while were are considered Federally Trained ADA Experts, we are not architects and I hate losing jobs LOL

    RGW

  • PinTail
    PinTail

    I have found them to be real Rats, lest ways they were with me. I had to go into the second ministry school room to help avoid the triggers of seizures but they would not let me, my brother in-law was an elder there and he was a real horses ass concerning this. I am surprised they did not think I had a demon or something. Shane

  • rwagoner
    rwagoner

    bttt

  • kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
    kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

    I have M.S. and there was a time that I had to walk with a cane. This was very hard for me to accept; I was probably 20 at the time. First of all, doc was amazing; I always felt terrible, how embarassing it must be to have a wife with a cane, but he never even blinked. The people in the world were wonderful, too. People never treated me poorly b/c of my illness/disability. One day I was at home (as usual, pretty much housebound at the time) and I got an unexpected gift in the mail. A dear friend, who lived across the country, had hand-painted a bamboo cane for me. It was gorgeous and, even though I haven't had to use it for years, is a prized possession. Her kindness touches me to this day, and I am also exceedingly happy that she found her way out of the dubs at about the same time as doc and me.

    The odd thing is that the dubs were not very nice about the whole thing. I really didn't know quite how to take it. I mean, when I first was diagnosed, one of my dub sisters-in-law said "you can't have M.S.; that a serious illness." I mean, I know she was probably a little unhinged by it - I certainly was - but it just was such an odd response. I had to get used to that though. Everyone at the Kingdom Hall seemed to want to tell me about their cousin/uncle/brother''s son's best friend who had MS and was now either in a wheelchair/in a nursing home/incontinent/divorced/and or dead. I mean, I was never angry at them - perhaps they didn't know what to say - but I never had a worldly person say such a thing, and the whole concept of telling someone how bad life would end up for them was just mystifying to me.

    It reminded me of when I was dating doc and the number of people who would come and tell me how badly it was bound to work out, considering their assorted friends and/or family members whose marriages had failed. I remember going to a get-together right after we'd gotten engaged and a friend told me - and not privately, but while we were all sitting in a circle of some sort - that I shouldn't get too excited b/c my marriage would probably fail, her daughter's had and so had hers and I had better just get used to the idea.

    The other reaction I experienced from witnesses was that maybe I was faking it. I mean, no one ever said as much, but I just got this impression that they thought if I tried harder I could somehow make my vision return to normal and I wouldn't have any more problems walking. I had fallen in public (numerous times)and been unable to stand up again, I had ended up almost driving off the road b/c my vision had gone so blurry and I was even on disability from the gvmnt (which anyone who's applied for that knows it's not easy to get) and yet somehow they thought this was a game I was playing? I don't know, I just never got it.

    Oh, and then my friend who said "I wish I had M.S. so I could stay at home in bed all day!" Well, hey, anybody who wants my MS is welcome to it! I have a life to live and really no time for it anyway. I'm in remission now (thankfully) but I'm glad to know that when/if it comes back at least the people in my life now are supportive.

    Kitties

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    I agree, the JWs are rather condensing to physically disabled people , the new system will heal them But they are totally intolerant of mental disability. They DF them. they cast them away. I do not mean those people who are (please forgive me I don't know the correct way to say this) mentally retarded. I mean the mentally and emotionally disturbed.

    weds

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Ok I'm gonna answer first and read the answers afterward ....

    1) What do you think is the view of the jw organization toward people with disabilities ?

    I don't remember anyone having disabilities in my KH's but very Old people or at Assemblies ... well everything sounds fine (what in the everyday life, I don't know)

    2) What are your personal views ? (pwd as workers, parents, objects of affection, intimate partners)

    Actually I've had to think about it cause my son was very close to loose his life or entire right leg cause he had his bone cancer on the top of it (means without your knee, you can't manage that well even with a good external prothese) ... but he is a lucky guy buy now, and got a whole internal titan prothesis (that you have to change every 10 to 20 years) even the knee is off, he has an artificial one and everything works with only the job of the muscles (cause tendons are off), in being very athletic built it works VERY FINE and if you don't know, you can't tell he has one at first when he his walking or even running it just make things more physical for him !

    The Surgeon did a very good job (without blood) I'm still in love somehow with the guy he is my hero of course ... I decided to not going at his RDV anymore when they have to meet, cause it's a bit too obvious (and he is playing with me - it's not that fun LOL)

    Also he have worked as a body guard and also shop watcher (I don't know the name of this job in English) it wasn't an issue at all in knowing it... as he is a good fighter (he is space smart when fighting / have very good reflexes / strike quick and strongly / you never know where he's gonna strike - praticed different kind of martial art never get graduated but scares and surprise those who are gradueted in it - they don't want to fight with him believe me !) . So this guy is not handicaped to me anyway ... but anyone of us might be one day for good ... I keep that in mind

    would you date someone with a disability? would you want your child to marry someone with a disability?

    Truly I don't know ... but I don't think that the disability would be the trouble, but what would bother me would having him complaining about it and make me feel too lucky compared to him ... it can happen to everybody ... tomorow might be my turn ... So I don't have to pay that bill ... And if I'm with him, well it would means a lot means enough for him to not bother me with that !

    would you hire a PWD ?

    Of course if he can do the job where is the probleme, but wouldn't give him/her the job BECAUSE him/her being a PWD only, only if he/she is the best I can find ... and eventually would take the PWD if I have to choose in between to people who have same level, just because I think it's harder then to find a job and that it might get them way more motivated (which might worth a few points for me to choose him/her) and might deserve a big advance as a candidate ... I just don't like crying babies ... being a PWD doesn't mean your not a man or a woman or that you don't know your job or need way more attention, some particular pratical arrangement yes (gotta be logical), and make sure that nobody bother about that ... !

    3) Do you think your experience with the jws affected your attitudes toward tose who were different ? (race, disability, etc)

    I don't know

    4) Do you see similarities or differences in the acceptance of PWD vs race, gender, orientation...etc ?

    Similarities ... Yes somehow ...

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