Have there been any existing cultural group made up of rationalists with neither a religion or a mythology?

by James Mixon 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    Disbelief is the default position, no one is born having a belief. Beliefs are

    acquired through culture and education, we all know that. It is not

    ultimately up to the atheist to justify atheism; rather it is up to the

    theist to explain why belief in a God is reasonable. In the absence

    of such explanation, theism should be regarded as irrelevant at

    best but likely irrational.

    Back to my original question, groups made up of rationalists and etc.

    Pygmy tribes found in Africa have no identifiable cults or rites. There

    were no totems, no gods, no spirits.

    Tribes in Cameroon only believed in a malicious gods and so made no efforts

    to placate or please them. LOL

    One tribe answer about God "is he on a rock? On a white-ant hill? On a tree?

    I never saw a God!

    North America. Some North American indian tribes believed in a god, but did

    not actively worship it, their philosophy, "Our grandfathers and our great-

    grandfathers were won't to contemplate the earth alone, solicitous only

    to see whether the plain afford grass and water for their horses. They

    never troubled themselves about what went on in the heavens, and who

    was the creator and governor of the stars.

    What a fine way to live.




  • truthseeker100
    truthseeker100

    One need only to look at this link to see a  group of rationalists.https://royalsociety.org/about-us/history/


  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow
    North America. Some North American indian tribes believed in a god, but did
    not actively worship it, their philosophy, "Our grandfathers and our great-
    grandfathers were won't to contemplate the earth alone, solicitous only
    to see whether the plain afford grass and water for their horses. They
    never troubled themselves about what went on in the heavens, and who
    was the creator and governor of the stars.



    James, do you have a source for that statement? That statement flies in the face of everything I know about Native American culture and the history of that culture.


    About your opening question : Communism.

    Keep in mind that political groups are culturally defined. Political groups and religious groups and social groups are cultural entities.

    *edit to add: the question of mythology is a complex one - even 'rational' groups have the need to develop mythology to substantiate and maintain their philosophies. As Georges Bataille said: The greatest contemporary myth is that there is no myth.

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    truthseeker100: thanks for the link.

    OrphanCrow: Primitive Atheism&Skepticism, the work of Durant.

    "Skepticism in North America".

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Rather than viewing this question from a static position of a particular set of beliefs in any society at a particular time, I suggest we need to see how beliefs develop in a society over a longer period of time.

    All human societies have developed from the time when the human mind emerged from the particular type of intelligence we could described as typical of animals (who can have 'intelligence') to something similar to our own experience. 

    In the beginning, lacking rational explanations for natural phenomena such as that experienced in thunder storms we would expect the explanations we find in the Bible (Job 38:1 NIV):

    Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm

    The belief system of that writer had, of course, developed from the sheer terror that a much more primitive human may have experienced during an electrical storm, particularly if one of his/hers group had been killed by a lighning bolt, an event that may have been explained by the invention of a divinity.

    The mind of the author of Job was already inventing and recording stories that offered (to him and his peers) more rational explanations (to that group) that involved a parallel invention of ethical standards.

    It does seem, that in the society we now know as early Israel, that some were already thinking about the question of the reality of divinities. Some likely (for whatever reasons) concluded that there was no God. King David who attributed his rise to Kingship to divine intervention, ordered his national choir to counter that thought in Psalm 14, which commences (verse 1):

    The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

    But to look at another long lived human society, we can cross from David's West Asian society to East Asia and China. 

    There is archeological evidence of superstitious belief in the early cultural history of the various pre-history societies that eventually formed the Chinese civilisation. Its particularly interesting because of its long historical continuity and possible independent intellectual development (though, we cannot be certain that there were no cross Asian circulation of ideas).

    Wing-Tsit Chan, in his, "A Source Book in Chinese Philosphy" writes (Chap 1), (and, I'm selecting thoughts from his first page)

    "If one word could characterise the entire history of Chinese philosophy, that word would be humanism - (a humanism) that professes the unity of man and heaven."
    " Humanism was an outgrowth, not of speculation, but of historical and social change."

    Chan these discusses how the conquest of the Shang dynasty (1751-1112 BCE) (where superstition  was prevalent) to the Zhou  who (Chan suggests) challenged human ingenuity and ability. For example, replacing prayers for rain with irrigation projects.

    They also developed:

    " the doctrine of the "Mandate of Heaven, a self-existent moral law, whose constant, reliable factor was virtue. According to this doctrine, man's destiny depended, not upon the existence of a soul before or after death, nor upon the whim of a spiritual force, but upon his own good words and good deeds."

    By the time of Kongzi (Confucius) (551-479 BCE) we find the influence of spirits further diminished, as he writes,

    " ... respect spiritual beings (ancestors), but keep them at a distance." (Analects 6:20)

    And a further one hundred years further on, teacher Liezi (circa 440-360 BCE) wrote:

    "Hence, everything creates itself without the direction of any creator."


    Hence we see demonstrated in Chinese society, that progression from superstition to rationality that upsets those who want to force us to be dependent on the whims of a mythical spirit being in the sky.





  • Half banana
    Half banana

    How about the (mainly) French 'philosophes' and encyclopaedists at the time of the Enlightenment, Rousseau, Diderot, Voltaire, David Hume etc? An intellectual community of anti-clerical rationalists...highly influential and vastly important in the the progress of of ideas. Although at a remove of two hundred and forty years, the world at  large has hardly caught up with them. Just think of the billions still ensnared by credulous trust in the Bible and other "holy" books.

    The light shed by these men has not yet reached into the deep pit in which JWs exist.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    "Pygmy tribes found in Africa have no identifiable cults or rites."

    Yes they do. The Bwiti tribe has initiation rites where they use psychedelic herbs to receive messages from their dead ancestors (spirits). This was before they started adopting Christian beliefs.

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