The old "in the days of Noah" guilt trip refuted

by Ticker 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    Ok here goes again grrr i had started posting this before and finished it but a dang phonecall screwed it up and it didnt post, frustrating. Oh well heres take 2 lol

    I wanted to bring this up and show in my opinion a solid refutiation to the watchtowers reasoning of "in noahs day all were destroyed even children because of their parents". I know this is a common point they bring up to stick the needle into ones who are DF'd, DA'd, inactive, irregular and have young children. Ive had it used on me several times and finally tried to collect some validity to this argument. Here goes, so take it for face value as im not a bible scholor and it is clearly in my opinion.

    First off they reason that if you are not part of the org and armageddon comes your children will also be terminated due to the actions of the parent. Is this truly so? Who is the one who will be doing the judging and how are we going to be judged? What decides how we are judged? Can we influence the outcome of anothers judgement before god?

    In Genesis chapter 7 v 21-24 we know that God wiped out every living being not on the ark, man, women, child, nephilim, even animals. The thing is what is later stated by God in Genesis chapter 8 v 21,22 and chapter 9 v 8-17. God felt remorse over his actions and promised never to commit a wide scale destruction by a glolbal flood. Well the reasoning they might attempt is that it will take place by other means at armegedon and we are still responsible for our young children's salvation. I find this is a flawed theory and is really pulled out of context. No surprise i guess lol they do it all the time.

    First off who is the judge and who should judge? Luke chapter 6 v 37 tells us we should not judge others, even jesus stated that we should first extract the rafter from our own eye. Romans chapter 14 v 4,5 asks who are we to judge? Exactly who are we to judge, they judge everyone as condemmed unless they are part of the org. James chapter 2 v 1-4 tells of ones who are judging, favoring ones over others and having class distinctions. I see this personally within the society. Ones who have wealth, personality, power tend to climb the ladder and form their little clicks. Lets face it we know that every R & F tends to sit and judge one another over petty little issues. Even the GB through their ever changing doctrines have judged outsiders as condemmed to death. Thats funny cuz in John chapter 5 v 22 all judging has been commited to Jesus not humans. So they have in my mind placed themselves in a seat that they have no business sitting in. They have placed themselves in a sence of authority that they do not have right too.

    My next disagreement with their reasoning is under what conditions and how we will be judged before god. 1st Peter chapter 1 v 17 talks of judgement without impartiality. Also John chapter 3 v 17 speaks of Jesus coming not to judge the world but to save the world through love. Since when has the watchtower ever applied this reasoning. Never, they always condition their explanations of how we will be judged and it never usually involves any love. They are the ones that take glee in the destruction of everyone but themselves. 1st John chapter 4 v 15-19 is very interesting. It shows that if we have faith in jesus and love him we are in union with him and his father, it tells of how god is love, and very interesting in verse 17 showing that we have a freeness of speach at our judging. Since when can you have a freeness of speech with the org. haha they would shut you up faster then lighting through whatever means possible. So im my opinion they again lack sound reasoning in their argument. So how is god judging to terminate an innocent child on the actions of the parent impartial? How is it loving? How is it a freeness of speach? I dont feel their reasoning even comes close to what the bible states. They have warped and twisted the true meaning by taking scriptures out of context and pulling at straws through manipulated intrerpretations.

    I found that in Romans chapter 2 v 6 that each "ONE" is rendered their judgement according to their "OWN" deeds during their life. Romans chapter 14 v 10-13 says each one will render an account for "HIMSELF" before god. Revelation chapter 20 v 11-13 also shows that Jesus will judge each person according to their "OWN" deeds "INDIVIDUALLY". This comes into direct contrast with the watchtowers reasoning on children being condemmed to die on account of their parents. I personally feel its a manipulative tool and a switch for indoctrinated guilt that they try to use to beat members back into their grip. I feel it is very unloving and its sad that they resort to such reasoning which imo is clearly in opposition to the bibles view on judgement. How they can do this to 6 million R & F and not feel guilty is beyond me. I think we will all stand before the judgement seat of god on our own. It will be us and jesus and no congloboratation of corporations hiding behind a religious mask are going to be alble to sway the scales in our favor. They just gloss over the truth and spin a web of control making it seem that 10 hours, placing mags and meetings are gonna save you. lmao What a surprise they will have.

    I feel bad that ones are controlled under such faulty and warped reasoning, and i do hope that i may help someone to get a clearer idea of the truth. Like i said this is only my opinion but i personally very strongly disagree that my actions would ultimately effect anothers salvation. It is just another net they use to interlink their members and keep them secured in bondage with in a man made organization. They have gotten to the point where theri is no distinction between god and themselves. In the members eyes they are god and this too me is wrong, very wrong. Let me know what you think about this and if i made any goofs. Like i said im not a bible schollor but its my 2 cents on thier doctine.

    Ticker

  • gumby
    gumby

    I'll just this for now. It's nice to see people as yourself who can reason as you do, then make healthy decisions based on your personal, logical reasoning...and not feel guilty acting upon it.

    Oh....and welcome to JWD!

    Gumby

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I'm gonna add an Amen to bro.Gumby's comments

  • MungoBaobab
    MungoBaobab

    Ticker, how do you then explain the fact that the god of the Bible routinely slaughters innocent children for the sins of their parents? While you bring up the fact that the BIble claims God killed every living thing at the Flood, you then attack the Witnesses for judging people. While we know this is true, and you do make some very vaild points, none of these reconcille the issue of God killing innocent children. Frankly, the god of the Bible has killed so many children for the sins of their parents that we can establish a fairly predictable pattern of behavior: if you're a kid, and your parent pisses off Jehovah, you're about to be pissed on by Jehovah.

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    New Light for the Governing Body of JW's:

    Who is denying access to the Saviour of the World?

    The evidence shows that it is the spirit directed GB of JW's.

    How many more will you deceive?

  • Navigator
    Navigator

    A Course In Miracles deals with the question of God's final judgement in the section called Manual For Teachers by answering the Question, Is Each one to be judged in the end?

    Indeed, Yes! No one can escape God's Final Judgment. Who could flee forever from the truth? But the Final Judgment will not come until it is no longer associated with fear. One day each one will welcome it, and on that very day it will be given him. He will hear his sinlessness proclaimed around and around the world, setting it free as God's Final Judgment on him is received. This is the Judgment in which salvation lies. This is the Judgment that will set him free. This is the Judgment in which all things are freed with him. Time pauses as eternity comes near, and silence lies across the world that everyone may hear this Judgment of the Son of God:

    Holy are you, eternal, free and whole, at peace forever in the Heart of God. Where is the world, and where is sorrow now?

    Is this your judgment on yourself, teacher of God? Do you believe that this is wholly true? No; not yet, not yet. But this is still your goal; why you are here. It is your function to prepare yourself to hear this Judgment and to recognize that it is true. One instant of complete belief in this, and you will go beyond belief to Certainty. One instant out of time can bring time's end. Judge not, for you but judge yourself, and thus delay this Final Judgment. What is your judgment of the world, teacher of God? Have you yet learned to stand aside and hear the Voice of Judgment in yourself? Or do you still attempt to take His role from Him? Learn to be quiet, for His Voice is heard in stillness. And His Judgment come to all who stand aside in quiet listening, and wait for Him.

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    "Ticker, how do you then explain the fact that the god of the Bible routinely slaughters innocent children for the sins of their parents? While you bring up the fact that the BIble claims God killed every living thing at the Flood, you then attack the Witnesses for judging people. While we know this is true, and you do make some very vaild points, none of these reconcille the issue of God killing innocent children."

    Very good point Mungobaobab

    I meant not to sound attacking im my demeaner as that would be uncalled for on my part. I was trying to just stress the overall spirit of the org and its followers when it comes to prejudging others as spiritually defunct or inadequete. Its a sort of double standard I suppose, on one hand they stress to not judge but in reality they do judge others as unworthy, or as spiritually dead. I too was guilty of such when i was a member of the jw's and it bothers me now. It bothered me then that it wasnt in harmony with Jesus council of not judging without first judging oneself, but now I really see the bad conotations that judging others carries.

    Yes you make a most valid point as to God killing children, in my human reasoning I find it hard to feel it as true justice. Children in my mind are innocent of their parents actions but pherhaps God reasoned differntly in the old testament. I prefer to think of Jesus example as a reflection of how God views children, but again it sometimes seems like two pieces that dont totally fit in unison. Very good points though, thankyou for your input.

    " Indeed, Yes! No one can escape God's Final Judgment. Who could flee forever from the truth? But the Final Judgment will not come until it is no longer associated with fear. One day each one will welcome it, and on that very day it will be given him. He will hear his sinlessness proclaimed around and around the world, setting it free as God's Final Judgment on him is received. This is the Judgment in which salvation lies. This is the Judgment that will set him free. This is the Judgment in which all things are freed with him. Time pauses as eternity comes near, and silence lies across the world that everyone may hear this Judgment of the Son of God:"

    Navigator thankyou for that piece of info, a very nice and soothing thought as to feeling the release by confiding in the pure judgement of Jesus Christ. A judgement free of man induced fear. This judgement I welcome but judgement from men I will not accept as the scales are unfairly tipped in their favor.

    Ticker

    P.S. sory im not good at pasting and copying but I tried my best. lol

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