How the "Bible Students" view disfellowshiping compared the JW's.

by PinTail 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PinTail
    PinTail

    Your email was forwarded to me for answering by the other members of our Bible study group since I used to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses and am more familiar with the Watchtower Society's current stance on disfellowshipping than they are.

    To begin with, disfellowshipping is not as widely or as frequently practiced among Bible Students as it is among JWs. Nor is it arrived at or meted out in the same way as the JWs. Rather, it is viewed as a last resort to be used only when all other means have been exhausted to recover the erring brother or sister and it usually involves cases of gross immorality not apostasy. In fact, I think you would be hard-pressed to find someone who had been disfellowshipped on the grounds of apostasy among the Bible Students due to their tolerance of differing viewpoints. Additionally, it is the entire congregation which hears and votes on the matter not just a body of elders which is very different from the Society's present procedure. The reason for this is that it can lessen the chance of a grave error in judgment from taking place and a travesty of justice from occurring. In fact, Matthew chapter 18, verses 15-17 dictate this a s being the proper course. Note what they say:

    "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation . If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." (NWT)

    It is the last sentence of the above scripture coupled with those of 2 John verse 10 and 1 Corinthians 5:11 that the JWs use to justify the sometimes extremely cruel treatment of those who have been disfellowshipped to the point of causing family divisions as you mentioned in your email. Brother Russell's comments on these verses are enlightening because they reveal a loving attitude and compassionate understanding that is sometimes completely lacking among JWs. For Matthew 18:17, I quote from Studies in the Scriptures, volume 6, pg. 416. It reads:

    "The object is not to cast the brother off utterly; but merely to show disfavor toward his wrong course with a view to assisting him to its correction. To treat such an one "as an heathen man and a publican" would not mean to slander or dishonor him even after he had been cast off. The Lord's people are not to be slanderers or backbiters under any circumstances: the general command-- "Speak evil of no man," covers the case exactly. We are neither to speak ill of, nor to look cross at, publicans and sinners, nor to refuse to do business with them; but we are to withhold from them the special fellowship and courtesy appropriate to the brethren of the New Creation and possessed of the holy Spirit and its love, joy and peace."

    For the other two verses I quote from Watchtower Reprint 3034 and 3035. There we read:

    "The Apostle John shows us that this matter of distinguishing as between brethren that are to be esteemed and brethren that are to be warned, appertains not merely to conduct but also to doctrinal matters. Yet we may be sure that he does not mean that we are to disfellowship a brother merely because of some differences of view on non-essential questions. We may be sure that he does mean his words to apply strictly and only to the fundamentals of the doctrine of Christ: for instance, faith in God; faith in Jesus as our Redeemer; faith in the promises of the divine Word. These will be marks of a "brother," if supported by Christian conduct, walking after the spirit of the truth;--even tho the brother might have other views which would differ from ours in respect to certain features of the plan of God not so clearly and specifically set forth in the Scriptures. But for those whom we recognize as being doctrinally astray from the foundation principles of Christ, the Apostle intimates that very drastic measures are appropriate;--not persecutions, nor railing; not bitter and acrimonious disputes; not hatred, either open or secret; but a proper showing of our disfellowship with the false doctrines held and taught by them; a proper protection, so that our influence shall not be in any manner or degree used to uphold his denial of the fundamentals of the Gospel. This drastic course is outlined by the Apostle in these words: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine [confessing Christ to have come into the world, in the flesh, to redeem our race, etc.] receive him not into your house, neither bid him God-speed; for he that biddeth him God-speed is partaker of his evil deeds." --2 John 10,11.

    "But, as our text intimates, we are to use discretion, judgment,--"and of some have compassion, making a difference." Some we may recognize as being merely entrapped of the Adversary, either in sin or in false doctrine, as the case may be, and not wilfully, intelligently, of their own volition. Toward such, still maintaining an attitude of firmness, we are nevertheless to express freely our trust that they are only temporarily wrong; and to seek to restore them, either doctrinally or in respect to their perverse moral course, to the position of fellowship with the Lord and with all the brethren who are in fellowship with him. Others we are to "save with fear, pulling them out of the fire." We may be obliged to speak very plainly to them; we may be obliged to tear open and expose before their eyes the sores of their own immoral course, showing them, as the case may be, the grossness of the sin or the grossness of the error in which they are involv ed; and doing so perhaps in strong language, if we realize that nothing short of this has availed to arouse them from their lethargy. In pulling them out of sin we are "pulling them out of the fire"--out of the Second Death--as the Apostle James says, speaking of this same class: "Let him know that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death"--a brother who is a sinner, a brother, he explains, who has "erred from the truth."--James 5:19,20.

    "Finally, we remark that the dealing of the brethren with the disorderly is not to be in the nature of a punishment; for it is not with us to punish. "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Our warnings or reproofs or withdrawals of fellowship, are to be merely in the nature of correctives, with a view, as the Apostle says, to the restoring of such an one. "Ye that are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted";--if not in the same manner, possibly in some other manner, in which you are weaker.--Gal. 6:1."

    Even regarding doctrinal matters, Br. Russell encouraged open and free discussion of scriptural topics without fear of reprisal or charges of apostasy. Note what he wrote in "Studies in the Scriptures", volume 6, pgs. 325 and 327:

    "Any one in attendance at such a class should have the privilege of presenting his question or topic, and the spirit of love and sympathy and helpfulness and consideration pervading all should be such that all proper topics would be accorded a respectful hearing. And in the case of a special request for a topic supposed to be contrary to the general views of the congregation, yet fully within the lines of the foundation principles of the Gospel, the person desirous of having the subject discussed should be granted a reasonable time for the presentation, and should be the chief speaker for the occasion, his time possibly being limited, say, to thirty minutes or more or less, according to the importance of the topic and the interest of the class in it. Following his presentation the question should be open for discussion by the others of the class, the propounder of the question having a few minutes granted him subsequently for a brief answer to an y objections brought forward by others, the Chairman having the final word in closing the meeting. . . all questions, all answers, all remarks--in meetings where several participate--should be for the entire company present (and not personal to any one or any number), and should, therefore, be addressed to the Chairman, who represents all--except when the Chairman may for convenience request the speaker to face and address the audience direct. Hence, too, after having expressed his own view, each is quietly to hear the views of others and not feel called to debate or restate his already stated position. Having used his opportunity, each is to trust to the Lord to guide and teach and show the truth, and should not insist that all must be made to see every item as he sees it, nor even as the majority view it. "On essentials, unity; on non-essentials, charity," is the proper rule to be followed.

    "We agree, however, that every item of truth is important, and that the smallest item of error is injurious, and that the Lord's people should pray and strive for unity in knowledge; but we must not hope to attain this by force. Unity of spirit on the first basic principles of truth is the important thing; and where this is maintained we may be confident that our Lord will guide all possessing it into all truth due and necessary to him. It is in this connection that the leaders of the Lord's flock need special wisdom and love and force of character and clearness in the Truth, so that at the conclusion of each meeting he who has led may be able to summarize the Scriptural findings and leave all minds under their blessed influence--expressing himself clearly, positively, lovingly--but never dogmatically, except upon the foundation principl es. "

    I encourage you to read the above quotations in their original context with Bible in hand to prove all things instead of just accepting what Br. Russell said or what the Society currently says regarding any scripture. As Br. Russell himself stated in the "Divine Plan of the Ages" on page 12:

    "We believe it to be a common failing of the present and all times for men to believe certain doctrines because others did so, in whom they had confidence. This is manifestly a fruitful cause of error, for many good people have believed and taught error in all good conscience. (Acts 26:9) Truth-seekers should empty their vessels of the muddy waters of tradition and fill them at the fountain of truth -- God's Word. And no religious teaching should have weight except as it guides the truth-seeker to that fountain."

  • minimus
    minimus

    Will the BS speak to a df'd one? Eat?

  • PinTail
    PinTail

    Yes they will speak to you and eat with you, it is only pertaining to carrying on a spiritual deep fellowship of the bible with you or untill the disfellowshiped one comes to some measure of grips and stops their wayward course.

  • minimus
    minimus

    At least they're not as extreme as the Witnesses but they still think Russell was used by God. He had some crazy ideas.

  • PinTail
    PinTail

    Yeah sure but at least the Bible Students" are much more loving than the Witness's are now. Its weird the Witness's are off shoot of this group but they became so harsh in the way they handle the sheep.

    The Bible Students" ideas some of which are based on Russell are loving non controlling they leave room for Christian freedom of thought not cult like; their view of the bible is just as plausible if not more so, simply because of their brotherhood based on love not threats from a Publishing Corp. Interesting to note the price of a subscription to the Herald magazine is only $5.00 a year not bad, its made much nicer than the witness WT magazine. Oh by the way their view is refreshing concerning Christmas and other holidays they leave it up to your own feelings on the matter rather than dictating law as thought it comes from Jehovah's mouth then disfellowshiping you like the witness's practice.

    Shoot I love the freedom that is with them it truly does belong to Christ. They are having many conventions this year, check out the times and places you might find it loving among them rather than robotic.

    Shane

  • minimus
    minimus

    The pyramid stuff and wrong chronology turns me off. Plus CTR was no one special.

  • PinTail
    PinTail

    Dear Lewis,

    Your thought-provoking questions have been forwarded to me for answering,

    1, Did C. T. Russell teach and do you the Bible Students" believe that in the Millennium all black people would become white and go to the star Alcyone? You cite the
    .

    The latter of the two magazines, while dicussing the difference between
    races, does not mention a change of color for the black races. While
    expressing a desire to remain unprejudiced toward any race, he was
    maximizing his resources based on the general lack of education of the black
    race in 1900.

    There is a statement in the 1914 Watch Tower which could easily be
    interpreted as saying that the black race would become white, but does not
    specificially state that but asserts a return of all to the conditions
    prevailing with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. It does seem that the
    author was including color as one of the distinctions that would cease. It
    is not the position of the Bible Student movement today that this is
    necessarily true.

    Even before the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's, the Bible Student
    insisted on equal rights for all races in their places of convening, even
    moving their venue for their annual convention from one location in
    in
    1948 to another based on this commitment to equal rights.

    2. Do we feel Michael the arcangel is the pope of
    ? In general, it is
    our position that Michael represents the Lord Jesus Christ. However, in
    Revelation, chapter 12, most Bible Students, though not all, see a
    counterfeit Michael which they do identify with the Pope.

    I notice that you refer to the Finished Mystery as the basis for your
    question. While that book does correctly reflect the current Bible Student
    position on Revelation 12, the book as a whole does
    not reflect either the
    current position on much of Revelation and we feel does not reflect the
    position of Charles Russell a
    s well.

    Our prayers are with you in your earnest search for truth. May the Bible
    itself always remain the basis of such a search.

    If you care to inquire further, please feel free to do so to the e-mail
    address above.

    Sincerely,

    Carl Hagensick,
    Editor, The Herald of Christ's Kingdom

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