Christology 101

by hooberus 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Psalm 8 KJV describes three types of entities: God, angels, and man (angels here I believe refers to nature- ie:created spirit creatures, not to merely to function as messengers) These can be diagrammed based on the Psalm as follows:

    • God (YHWH)
    • angels
    • man

    The watchower teaches that Jesus is now (following his resurrection) an angel (Michael the archangel) and not God nor man. The watchtowers teaching on the resurrected Jesus can be diagrammed as the following:

    • God
    • angel
    • man

    Evangelical Chrsitain teaching is that Jesus is now both God and man, and not an angel. This can be diagrammed as the following:

    • God
    • angel
    • man

    This is a series of threads designed to look at the Scriptures teachings on the nature of Jesus Christ. The first thread will be resons why Jesus is not an angel, the second reasons why Jesus is a man, the third on reasons why Jesus is also God. I will attempt to keep to each of these subjects specifically on each thread, and I would ask that those who wish to participate would do the same.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Part 1. Jesus - not an angel

    1. No angel can be God's begotten Son: "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Hebrews 1:5

    2. No angel can sit at God's right hand (Jesus sts at Gods right hand): "But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" Hebrews 1:13

    3.The world to come is not in subjection to an angel (but is is to Jesus): "For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak." Hebrews 2:5

    4.The word "spoken by angels" is contrasted with the word "spoken by the Lord" (Jesus) therefore Jesus could not be an angel: " Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;" Hebrews 2:1-3

    5. Angels are servants of God: "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10 Phillippians 2 shows that Jesus was not a servant before the incarnation: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" Phillippians 2:6-7

    6. Regardless of how the greek word proskuneo is means or is translated, the phrase "all the angels" in Hebrews 1:6 must surely include Michael (since he is an angel): "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." Hebrews 1:6. Even the watchtower once made this point: "...His position is contrasted with that of men and angels, as he is Lord of both, having ?all power in heaven and earth.? Hence it is said, ?Let all the angels of God worship him? [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God; and the reason is,] because he has ?by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they . . . " Zion?s Watchtower and Herald of Christ?s Presence, 1879, page 48. That the phrase "all the angels" includes Michael is furthermore verifed by the fact that Hebrews 1:6 is a quote from Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX: "Be glad, O heavens, together with him, and let all the angels of God worship him. Be glad, you nations, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him . . . " in which the phrase "all the angels" must surely include Michael.

    7. Michael the archangel is shown in Jude to be distinct from "the Lord": " Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." Jude 1:9. Jesus is "the Lord" contrasted with angels (Hebrews 2:1-3 see above).

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Good to see you back Hooberus.

    Good topic. No where does Scripture equate Jesus with angels. On the contrary he is always distinguished as God's Son, who is superior to them. Somehow some seem to think that if Jesus is the chief angel, he is special. However, a higher rank still wouldn't take away his angelic nature, would it?

  • IronGland
    IronGland

    Amusing. Some drunks see pink elephants.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    IG,

    Does that mean elephants are not real?

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    Good topic. No where does Scripture equate Jesus with angels. On the contrary he is always distinguished as God's Son, who is superior to them. Somehow some seem to think that if Jesus is the chief angel, he is special. However, a higher rank still wouldn't take away his angelic nature, would it?

    I agree. In fact I believe that a close comparison between 2 Peter 2:10-11 and Jude 1:8-9 shows that Michael the archangel is (though high ranking) still definitely an angel.

    " But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord." 2 Peter 2:10-11

    "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." Jude 1:8-9

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    hooberus

    I like to ask, "what is accomplished by an angel being converted to a human and dieing?" Wouldn't just any sinless angel do the trick, why Michael?

    D Dog

  • mnb77
    mnb77

    stuff i found on Jesus...man and God

    Jesus' Two Natures

    Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. That is, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14). This means that in the single person of Jesus is both a human and divine nature. The divine nature was not changed. It was not altered. He is not merely a man who "had God within Him" nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word," (Heb. 1:3, NIV). Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together," nor are they combined into a new God-man nature. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.
    The following chart should help you see the two natures of Jesus "in action":

    GOD MAN
    He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33).He worshiped the Father (John 17).
    He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
    He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
    He is prayed to (Acts 7:59).He prayed to the Father (John 17).
    He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15).He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).
    He knows all things (John 21:17).He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
    He gives eternal life (John 10:28).He died (Rom. 5:8).
    All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9).He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

    The Communicatio Idiomatum

    A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties"). It is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven, (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence, (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.

    Mistakes Cultists make

    One of the most common errors that non-Christian cults make is not understanding the two natures of Christ. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on Jesus' humanity and ignore His divinity. The repeatedly quote verses dealing with Jesus as a man and try and set them against scripture showing that Jesus is also divine. On the other hand, the Christian Scientists do the reverse. They focus on the scriptures showing Jesus' divinity to the extent of denying His true humanity.
    For a proper understanding of Jesus and, therefore, all other doctrines that relate to Him, His two natures must be properly understood and defined. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1,14).
    The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6).
    Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1.
    1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Right now, there is a man in heaven on the throne of God. He is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus.

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