Hello everyone,
after a long absence I'm back . Many things kept me away from contributing to this forum,
but whenever I had the opportunity I visited and read some of the material posted.
Surely of great interest with many new ones.
To continue my modest contribution I'll give a more complete version of the famous
flip/flop :
The Men of Sodom...will they be resurrected?
First some reminders,
‘ The Watchtower ’ December 15 th 1990 page 26
“For over a century , delightful, correct words of truth covering every aspect of life have been presented in the Watch Tower Society's publications and widely distributed in many languages.”
*** w87 3/1 p. 14 ‘Upon the Watchtower I Am Standing’ ***
The Watchtower and Awake!: Champions of Truth
15. (a) What method of dispensing spiritual food today is similar to that in the early Christian congregation?
15 The “faithful and discreet slave” class, the “watchman,” today uses the Watchtower magazine under the direction of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses as its main channel for dispensing spiritual “food at the proper time.” (Matthew 24:45) This follows the pattern of the first-century congregation, which put clarifying information on doctrine and morals into written form “to be read to all the brothers .” (1 Thessalonians 5:27)
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°°°2
** w87 3/ 1 page 15
18. Why can we read The Watchtower and Awake! with confidence?
18 To this day the Governing Body follows similar guidelines. Each article in both The Watchtower and Awake! and every page, including the artwork, is scrutinized by selected members of the Governing Body before it is printed. Furthermore, those who assist in writing articles for The Watchtower are Christian elders who appreciate the seriousness of their assignment. (Compare 2 Chronicles 19:7.) They spend many hours in researching the Bible and other reference material to make sure that what is written is the truth and that it faithfully follows the Scriptures. ( Ecclesiastes 12:9, 10; 2 Timothy 1:13) It is not unusual for one magazine article—that you may read in 15 minutes—to take from two weeks to over a month to prepare.
19 Therefore, you can read The Watchtower and Awake! with confidence. But you can do more. You can enthusiastically offer these magazines to others so that they also can learn the truth and benefit from hearing the messages of the ‘watchman standing upon the watchtower.’ (Isaiah 21:8) Yes, along with the modern-day watchman, you too can champion Bible truth. ”
1**
'Zion’s Watch Tower' July 1879 page 7-8
[R3 : page 1]
ZION'S WATCH TOWER
AND
HERALD OF CHRIST'S PRESENCE.
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"Watchman, What of the Night?" "The Morning Cometh."--Isa. 21:11.
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VOL. I. PITTSBURGH, PA., JULY, 1879. NO. 1.
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PUBLISHED MONTHLY.
101 Fifth Ave., PITTSBURGH, PA.
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C. T. RUSSELL, Editor and Publisher.
r8 "WHAT IS TRUTH?"
r9 "GOD IS LOVE."
r10 CHRIST'S PERSONAL
r10 THREE WORLDS.
r11 God's "Little While."
r12 The Royal Priesthood.
r13 The Blood of Christ.
page 7
If Death ends all
to the ignorant masses of the world. The only scripture ever quoted to prove this generally entertained view, is, "As [R8 : page 8] the tree falleth, so it lies." If this has any relation to man and his future, it indicates that in whatever condition of knowledge or ignorance he enters death, he remains the same until he is raised up again.
But can knowledge ever reach these billions in their graves while dead? No; God has provided for the resurrection of them all. For "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." As death came by the first Adam, so life comes by the second Adam. Everything that mankind lost in the first, is to be restored in the second. Hence, the age following Christ's second coming is spoken of as "the times of restitution."
......
The Sodomites.
Surely if we find their restitution mentioned you will be satisfied. But why should they not have an opportunity to obtain eternal life as well as you or the Jew? They were not wicked in the proper sense, for they did not have law or much knowledge. True, they were not righteous, but neither were you when God gave you your opportunity. Christ's own words shall tell us that they are not as guilty in His sight as the Jews, who had more knowledge: "Woe unto thee Capernium, for if the mighty works which have been done in thee had been done in Sodom it would have remained unto this day."
Thus Christ's own words teach us that they had not had their full opportunity. "Remember," Christ says of the Sodomites, that "God rained down fire and destroyed them all." So, if their restoration is spoken of, it implies their resurrection.
Let us look at the prophecy, Ezek. 16:48 to the close. Read it carefully. God here speaks of Israel and compares her with her neighbor, Samaria, and also with the Sodomites, whom he says, "I took away as I saw good." Why did God see good to take away these people without giving them a chance of eternal life through the knowledge of "the only name?" Because it was not their due time. They will come to a knowledge of the truth when restored. He'll save them from death's bondage first, and then give them knowledge as it is written. "God will have all men to be saved, and to come to a knowledge of the truth." When brought to the knowledge, then, and not until then, are they on trial for eternal life. With this thought, and with no other, can we understand the dealings of the God of love with those Amalekites and other nations, whom he not only permitted, but commanded Israel to butcher. "Slay Amalek utterly--leave neither man, woman or child."
....But let us read the prophecy further. After comparing Israel with Sodom and Samaria, and pronouncing her worse, vs. 53says: "When I bring again the captivity [in death, all are captives and [R8 : page 8] Christ came to 'set at liberty the captives and to open the prison doors' of the grave,] of Sodom and Samaria, then will I bring thy captives in the midst of them." (These will be raised together.) In vs. 55this is called "a return to
"Their Former Estate."
--restitution. But some one, who cannot imagine that God really could be so good or just, suggests God must be speaking ironically to the Jews, and saying He would just as soon bring back the Sodomites as them, but has no notion of either.
..... They will be ready to exclaim with brother Paul: "Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"
2**
‘The Watchtower’
June 1st, 1952 page 338
”Similarly, Sodom did not endure its judgment day, had failed completely, and the Jews knew its fate was sealed. Their opinion of Sodom was the lowest possible. So when Jesus told them that it would be more endurable for utterly depraved Sodom than for these Jewish cities they got the powerful point.
These Jewish cities had heard the warning and had seen powerful works; they had had their fair judgment trial and by their decision showed they were worthy of eternal destruction.”
3**
‘The Watchtower ‘
August 1st ,1965 page 479
Then the next verse refers to the Judgment Day, saying: “Consequently I say to you people, It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day than for you.” (Matt. 11:24)
Similarly, at Matthew 10:15 are recorded Jesus’ words: “Truly I say to you, It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city” where the people would reject the message carried by Jesus’ disciples. For it to be “more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah” than for others, it would be necessary for former inhabitants of that land to be present on Judgment Day.
It is not the literal land, the ground, that is to be judged. Revelation chapter 20 shows that it will be persons raised from the dead who will stand “before the throne.” Nor will judgment be passed on them as groups, as former inhabitants of certain lands, but they will be “judged individually according to their deeds” during the time of judgment. So apparently individuals who used to live in that land will be resurrected. —Rev. 20:12, 13. “
4**
From the book :
”You Can Live Forever in Paradise”
1982 edition
on pages 178 and 179 “ ….the men of
Sodom will be resurrected .”
5**
‘The Watchtower ‘
June 1st ,1988 page 31
Consequently, in addition to what Jude 7 says, the Bible uses Sodom/Gomorrah and the Flood as patterns for the destructive end of the present wicked system.
It is apparent, then, that those whom God executed in those past judgments experienced irreversible destruction. Of course, each of us can confirm that by his proving faithful to Jehovah now. In that way we will qualify to be alive in the new world to see whom he resurrects and whom he does not.
We know that his judgments are perfect. Elihu assured us: “For a fact, God himself does not act wickedly, and the Almighty himself does not pervert judgment.”—Job 34:10, 12.
6**
“ Revelation -- Its Grand Climax
at Hand!” page 273
( published in 1988)
[Box on page 273]
"Epistle to Sodom and Gomorrah" […]
Jesus Christ also knew what he thought and stated it in explicit terms. He said that it would be "more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day" than for the religionists who spurned his message. (Matthew 11:23, 24) Jesus was here using hyperbole to show that those religious leaders who rejected the Son of God and his teaching were even more reprehensible than the Sodomites. Jude 7 states that those Sodomites underwent "the judicial punishment of everlasting fire," meaning eternal destruction. (Matthew 25:41, 46) How severe, then, will be the judgment of so-called Christian leaders who blindly lead their blinded flocks away from the high moral standards of God's Kingdom into the permissive, debauched ways of this world! (Matthew 15:14) Concerning false religion, Babylon the Great, the voice from heaven calls with urgency: "Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues."-Revelation 18:2, 4.
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7**
it-2 page 985 Sodom ***
Book “Insight in the Scriptures “
(Published in the year 1988 )
“Everlasting Destruction. Sodom, however, persisted in a course in defiance of Jehovah, becoming known for such immoral practices as homosexuality. “The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah,” Jehovah declared, “yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy.” God therefore sent his angels to destroy Sodom, with the assurance to Abraham that if ten righteous persons could be found in the place, the whole city would be spared.—Ge 18:16, 20-33.
The city showed it deserved destruction, for a vile mob of residents of Sodom, including boys and old men, surrounded Lot’s house, attempting to rape his angelic guests. The next day, after Lot, along with his wife and two daughters, left the city, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by sulfur and fire. (Ge 19:1-29; Lu 17:28, 29) Thereafter Sodom and Gomorrah became a proverbial figure of utter destruction from God Almighty (De 29:23; Isa 1:9; 13:19; Jer 49:18; 50:40; La 4:6; Am 4:11; Zep 2:9; Ro 9:29) and of extreme wickedness.—De 32:32; Isa 1:10; 3:9; Jer 23:14; Eze 16:46-56; see GOMORRAH.
Jude mentions that “Sodom and Gomorrah . . . are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” This would not conflict with Jesus’ statement about a Jewish city that would reject the good news: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.” Sodom and Gomorrah were everlastingly destroyed as cities , but this would not preclude a resurrection for people of those cities .— Jude 7; Mt 10:15; compare Lu 11:32; 2Pe 2:6.
7bis**
it-1 page 985 Gomorrah ***
Book “Insight in the Scriptures “
(Published in the year 1988 )
“The apostle Peter said that by reducing Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes, God condemned them, “setting a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come.” (2Pe 2:6) This mention by Peter and references by Jesus Christ and Jude prove that Jesus and his disciples acknowledged that these cities of the District had actually existed and that they accepted the Biblical account of them as true. Though the cities underwent “the judicial punishment of everlasting fire” (Jude 7), Jesus indicated that people of Sodom and Gomorrah would experience a resurrection to stand for judgment. He contrasted them with a city that rejected his disciples in their preaching of the Kingdom good news, saying: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.”—Mt 10:7, 14, 15; see SODOM”
8**
From the book : “You Can Live Forever in Paradise” 1989 edition
page 178 and 179
”Will such terribly wicked persons be resurrected during Judgment Day? The Scriptures indicate that apparently they will not. For example, one of Jesus’ inspired disciples, Jude, wrote first about the angels that forsook their place in heaven to have relations with the daughters of men. Then he added: “So too Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” (Jude 6, 7; Genesis 6:1, 2) Yes, for their excessive immorality the people of Sodom and of the surrounding cities suffered a destruction “
9 **
“Kingdom Ministry “
for December 1989 page 7 Announcements
• Some adjustments will be made in future printings of the Live Forever book. The only significant change is with regard to the Sodomites, on pages 178 and 179. This change appeared in the Revelation book, page 273, and in The Watchtower of June 1, 1988, pages 30 and 31. You may wish to note it in earlier printings that you have on hand.
I do hat the friend who asked me, will be satisfied with the answer.
Greeting to you all,
J.C. MacHislopp