Before Jesus ascended to heavens he said that he had acquired all power on earth and in heaven having wrestled successfully with, and overwhelmed satan and his angels.
However the church he established had/has to make an attrocious war against that same soundly defeated enemy.
The question is if Jesus defeated them once and for all why are his followers fighting a war against them all over again? Why are the forces of evil predominant in this world to this day (no kingdom of God even on a small island)?
The JWs to my knowledge never had any explanations on the issue, but are there any from other churches, theologians, or your own opinions, to explain this paradox?
Paradox of the defeated evil
by greendawn 6 Replies latest jw friends
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greendawn
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Robert K Stock
When I was a Witness I would explain this by saying that Jesus was giving formal notice to Satan and his Demons that they had lost and were sentenced to eternal destruction. I used to say that it was similar to a convicted murderer being sentenced to death but not executed until many years later.
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Satanus
Maybe jesus was talking concerning himself only*. If a person faces and overcomes all their fears and challenges, accomplishes enough to feel satisfied, then he/she can feel like he/she has all the power. Reality tells me that everyone needs and has needed to at least attempt that.
*if he did exist, and if he said that. Maybe somebody else said something like that as he was dying.
S
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jschwehm
Hi:
Great question Greendawn.......
In the Catholic Tradition, all creation is considered to be by its very nature good including mankind. (Unlike what the JWs and other Protestant groups teach about human nature which is that it is by its very nature evil.) However, according to Catholic Tradition, we are wounded because of inherited sin but NOT inherently evil. This means that we can take good things and use them inappropriately and make them bad. Or, to put it another way, we can choose to act in a way that is inferior to the way that God wants us to act. But we can also choose to do good although many times that is not our first inclination.
In short, God wants us to participate in His life. That, according to Catholic Tradition, should be the goal of all Christians. We can choose to start living the life of God in this world if we want to, but Satan influences our culture and encourages us to make poor choices and do evil. By the way, often times we think of good and evil as being equal. However in Catholic Tradition evil is really more of a deficiency in something that was originally good. In other words, evil is a corruption of what is inherently good.
However, all is not lost. In the Catholic Tradition, the Lord gives us sacraments through the Church to give us the grace (think power) to choose to do good and to overcome our tendency to be attracted to sin. So through the ministry of the sacraments from the Church, the Lord has defeated Satan and evil, if we choose to be open to God's assistance. In this way, Jesus defeated Satan in that currently through the Church (known as Christendom which is Christ's Kingdom) and the sacraments that the Church administers, people can overcome their tendency toward sin and receive eternal life even now. This is a major defeat for Satan who wishes not just death for us but he also wishes eternal separation from God upon us as well.
Eventually, of course, Satan will be permanently imprisoned at the end of time according to Catholic Tradition and all people who choose what is good will have the privilege of living forever in the new heavens and new earth in the literal physical presence of God. There we will participate in the life of God to its fullest. Right now we merely have a foretaste of that life through the sacraments of the Church.
I hope that answers your question.
Jeff Schwehm
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Qcmbr
My simple answer:
We need satan to tempt us to choose good or evil.
Until the resurrection and atonement satan had technically won (no actual repentance possible so all cut off from God forever - no unclean thing can enter into the presence of God).
After the resurrection satan could no longer win as all people now can choose to return to God but also quite literally satan also ceased his outright free hand on the earth - never again could he take the mortal Jesus up a high mountain and offer Him the world.
Satan however, is allowed to remain until the millenium and then will be bound until right at the end so we can experience choices in a tough environment - otherwise the knowledge won by Adam and Eve was not as beneficial as I think it was. -
jaffacake
Interesting, I think it is only Roman Catholics and JWs who believe Satan is a fallen angel.
CT Russell was influenced by adventists, christadelphians, and arguably arianism. Last month I borrowed a book from my mother's bookshelf, which is by Christadelphians.
They believe what the bible teaches about the devil is a sort of parable, and that those who believe in fallen angels rely on verses snatched out of the last book of the Bible and apply to the genesis story. The Bible talks of the devil, a blasphemer, and about satan, one who opposes God. It may be a mistake to use this to blame another for our sins, but perhaps it is trying to teach us how wicked we are and how it is a battle to overcome human nature. Jesus said:
'for from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts' Mark 7:21
Perhaps the fight we must wage is to overcome our own natural desires if we are to please God. However the requirement is perfection- impossible, until the Messiah.
Just one way of looking at it.
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greendawn
I wish to thank you for the ideas in your replies and they all seem to be part of solving the question.
The idea that I am forming gradually is that the defeat of the enemy was not at that time absolute and there was still more to be done, they surely lost all right to authority in heaven and on earth but not necessarily all their status as individuals (eg even prisoners of war have some status and rights) that's why the Son had to wait for them to become a footstool to his feet in due time.
Their refusal to accept the new realities and their constant antagonism and persecution of the Church on the earth would in time lead to their absolute negation a total stripping of all status which is equivalent to their casting down to the ground from heaven.
That defiance of theirs that was to be tolerated for a time would also tie in nicely with the requirement for humans to share in the Son's glory and power by going through their own tribulations at the hands of the demonic enemy - "fight and conquer as I did and I will grant you to sit on My Throne."
Anyway that's the formulation I came up with on studying this issue.
Jschwem I like the catholic perspective on human nature as being fundamentally good rather than evil, should people grow in a better, more fair enviroment with better education and awareness then they could easily be much nicer. Much better than the mistrustful, pessimistic and cheerless JW approach.