What would you say to someone who is going to be baptized soon? I don't think he has a clue as to what it really means, what will be expected of him. And just how his life will change. He has been going to hell for about two years and does not see any of the hypocrisy or any of the damage done to families in the name of the org. Any suggestions? thanks, carla
What would you say..
by carla 9 Replies latest jw experiences
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Will Power
Dear (((Carla)))....my heart goes out to you. Whatever I did or said - it didn't work. I don't think there is anything that can be said - anything turns it into what seems like "I'll do it just for spite now" with the backing of the whole congregation - I'm sure they know the "opposition" he must be dealing with at home. This will make his & their victory even sweeter. THEY are in a theocratic war you know.
I don't know that much about your situation but....One thing I know for sure - the reason someone adopts the I'm going to join or die attitude is usually for reasons far from the obvious. I'd say he could be looking for forgiveness, acceptance, self worth etc. all things he might think can be found with this group. The love-bombing is a powerful thing. In the long run this group cannot service these needs as it goes contrary to their doctrines.
Check your premises has some great posts using Steve Hassam's Realeasing the Bonds book. If you are serious about maintaining your sanity in this relationship you might want to pick up a copy. This will help you identify which part of the personality you are talking to, then what type of conversation will be accepted.
Wish I had something more positive - but this has not been a positive experience for me. Keeping a journal has helped me keep things in perspective. PM if you like.
will
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Will Power
Carla - one question you might ask tho, (very quietly & compassionately) is .... Dose he realize that if he joins this group, Jesus will cease to be his mediator?
In the witness world, Jesus is the mediator only for the 144,000. (this is not something they advertise - so he might not even be aware because they are wolves in sheep's clothing)
Instead of Jesus - the Christ, acting as his go between to the Father - (NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME)
The Watchtower is setting themselves up in this positon. Substituting themselves as the mediator - in the position of where Jesus ought to be. By the book, they are a false Christ. The have also inserted themselves as the 3rd party in the WT trinity, naming themselves in the baptismal vow as an entity in the pledge of alliegience. Where the bible says baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, after 1985 they changed this vow to be Jehovah, Jesus & the spirit directed organization.
If he has a WT CD together you could do a search for specific words. Also the quotes.ca website is extremly helpful - Maybe someone can post entire web address - my history & favourites have been wiped.
Will
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Sirona
Carla,
I would say that if he wants to get baptised, he should at least look at the other side of the issue first. It is logical to look at both sides of something and if there are secrets about this religion then he should know before he joins. He should educate himself. If it is the "truth" it will stand up to the scrutiny and he'll be getting involved with his eyes open. You could say that in the years to come when he goes out on the ministry, someone may raise these points and he will be oblivious unless he studies them now, first, before getting baptised.
Then provide him with the alternate information. I'd ask him to read Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz. If he still wants to join, then so be it.
Sirona
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Sith
It's been my experience that most people contemplating baptism don't have any idea what they are setting themselves up for. I was baptized at age 12 and didn't have a clue how much that decision would affect the entire rest of my life. I made arguably the most important decision of my life at an age when I was still reading comic books (keeping them well hidden, of course) This was pre-1975, when everyone at or over the "age of reason" was "encouraged" to be baptized as soon as their 6 month bible study was finished. The age of reason, my ass! Anyone who is thinking about being baptized as a JW needs to be told, in no uncertain terms, what the actual consequences are - short term and long term.
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jgnat
Hi, Carla, my sympathies as well. I, also, am a non-JW married to a Witness. I doubt you will be able to stop the baptism. If you try, you may be regarded as an 'opposer'. You want to stay on side with your husband as much as possible for the days ahead. The world of the JW is so black and white, if you are not seen as supportive, you will be seen as an enemy. JW's see nothing wrong with lying and sneaking around an 'opposer'. Their influence can be divisive and damaging in a mixed marriage. They can be very sweet to your face, but when you are gone they flock to your husband with murmured condolences. You may be treated badly not only by the congregation, but by your very own husband. It is very hard to sleep with the 'enemy'.
If I were you, I would ask to be there for the baptism. Ask lots of questions about what it is like. Ask if you can take a picture.
Baptism candidates are seated on the front row for the first part of the service. Just before lunch, they are addressed by the speaker, a short talk is given about the commitment they are about to make, and the candidates rise and file off to the side. Everyone breaks for lunch. Family and friends discreetly flock around the tank to watch. The candidates will get some hearty back-slapping and congratulations for the afternoon.
I enjoy watching the men set up and take down the tank. They are obviously of middle rank, not important enough to have any office duties. So they puff about checking the valves, the water, the step ladder. They do this all in dress shoes, pants and shirt, sleeves rolled up.
I think you have a much better chance of getting through to your husband shortly after the baptism, when the "love-bombing" ends. No longer will the congregation be able to mark down their time with your husband on their time-cards. Wait for the opportune time, ask leading questions, and hope for the best.
The JW recruiting agenda has worked for over a hundred years. If a person does not prove to be malleable in the first few visits, they are dropped. After baptism, it is very humiliating for any person to admit that they just wasted two years of their life on a dream. So instead, they convince themselves that the shabby treatment is their fault. They will then go on and waste ten years or more on the same false dream.
Oh, yes. Don't tolerate any sneaking around. Make sure your husband gets that message loud and clear.
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Shania
More than likely he is being pressured into it.. Ask him to wait one more year and print off a few experience from here and share them with him, don't tell him it is an apostate site.........The way I have done it is always refer to the experience are from Brothers and Sisters, that way they are a little relaxed about reading them.........but truthfully there is very little you can say............if he wants to get baptized he will no matter what.
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Carmel
Sith, like you I was baptized at 12 due to false promises and lots of family and congregation pressure. I used to think it was thee most important decision too, but have long sense put it into prepsective. Neither was this phoney ritual of any importance, it was a blight on my life. It is a physical act that has no value for my salvation or anyone elses, contrary to well established Christian doctrin. Like the trinity, it is a bastarized idea that focuses on physical reality and ignores the real reality, the spiritual. I hope you can also let it go and get on with cultivating a spiritual life without the trappings that get in the way.
regards,
carmel
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TheListener
Carla,
In my experience by the time someone is contemplating baptism they are pretty well "in" the organization. It would be great if he would review both sides of the coin regarding the society but at this point in his spiritual progress I doubt he will. If he's getting baptized he probably feels that he doesn't need to or already has (using the society's literature). I've said this before and I know it's true: the first year or two after baptism is when the dub has the most super-dub or zealous attitude. The new learning phase and the new baptism phase are when most dubs piss of their friends and family because they just can't understand why you don't "get it". Don't alienate him, don't belittle him (not that you do), and try to maintain any sort of trust you can. In time he may, key word here is may, start to see things in a different light like so many here have.
Good luck.