I have wanted to ask this question for some time and I think I found the place. I understand that JW's (I use that term respectfully) believe that the days of creation are a long period of time. (I am not sure what the belief is either 1000 or 7000 years I think) My question is this how do you come up with that. In almost every instance where the term day is used with a numerical number with it it always refers to a 24 hour peroid. God in the 10 commandments says about ceration ".. in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day." I have not found anywhere in the Bible where it says that a day is 1000 years long. Peter says with God a day is AS a thousand years and a thousand years is AS one day. That text cannot say a day equels a thousand years becase it would also say a thousand years is one day. That can't work
creation days
by pintoman 9 Replies latest watchtower bible
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IronGland
My question is this how do you come up with that.
Fred Franz took ALL the drugs. AT ONCE!
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Justin
Most of us are former JWs and are not interested in presenting arguments in defense of their beliefs. Basically, the JW belief in 7,000 year creation days is based on what they consider to be the length of the seventh day. They believe that God is still resting from his creative work, and that based on the argument in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4, we have the opportunity of entering God's rest with him. As we are now supposedly 6,000 years removed from the original creation, and as there is a 1,000-year millennial kingdom still ahead of us, this makes a total of 7,000 years for the seventh day. If the seventh day is 7,000 years long, each of the preceeding days must also have been 7,000 years. This, by the way, is not a recent belief, but was held by Charles Taze Russell himself at the beginning of the movement. But please do not pursue this, as probably no one here would attempt to make any sense of it. You would need to contact active JWs or even the Watchtower Society itself if you care to pursue the matter further.
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City Fan
Pintoman,
I think their most recent expression for the length of a creative day is "millenia" which could mean any length of time, from a thousand years to millions of years. This also keeps older JWs happy who think the Watchtower still believes in the 7000 year creative day doctrine.
Someone else may be able to give you the most recent quote from their publications on this.
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Qcmbr
..presumably we can't apply our days to the creation account because the earth didn't orbit the sun until the end of 'day' 3
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And I, God, said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven, to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years;
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth; and it was so.
16 And I, God, made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night, and the greater light was the sun, and the lesser light was the moon; and the stars also were made even according to my word.
17 And I, God, set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And the sun to rule over the day, and the moon to rule over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness; and I, God, saw that all things which I had made were good;
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
..now if light was day 1 then clearly applying 24 hours to our understanding is wrong:
This is how I read creation (LDS scriptures - take it or leave it):
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:29 - 34)
29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.
30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?
31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.
32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
Adam - not created on 'this' earth...
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:35)
35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.
..God only tells the story of the people whom he is talking to - in this case we are about to hear the story of the people of the family of 'Adam' on this earth (- Adam seems to be a title as is Eve meaning many..)
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 2:27)
27 And I, God, created man in mine own image, in the image of mine Only Begotten created I him; male and female created I them.
God is a man , 'God' must be at least two people ( a male and a female) - not two people in one body but at least two individual images to copy ('God' a title not always one person) - Jesus (Only Begotten) only has a spiritual body here so it suggests that Adam and Eve (many) created spiritually first ...
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 3:3 - 5)
3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.
4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
..and here it is the seven day creation period was nothing to do with seven days of physical creation - it was the complete spiritual creation of all the life that would inhabit this earth - including the earth itself..
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 3:6 - 7)
6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.
Man created first (not macro evolution) - now Satan (Lucifer - already created draws a third of the host of Heaven after him - not necessarily just man - since by this reading all life has a spirit and is intelligent then it seems conceivable that the third of the host of heaven was of all spiritual life)
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 4:4 - 6)
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
5 And now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which I, the Lord God, had made.
6 And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.
...since this is my personal reading I'll put a big speculative point in here - I don't think the serpent is a snake - I think it is some of the family of Adam (many) and that there were more than two people on the earth.
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 4:16 - 17)
16 And he said: I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I beheld that I was naked, and I hid myself.
17 And I, the Lord God, said unto Adam: Who told thee thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, if so thou shouldst surely die?
- the fall follows trangression not sin (since no unclean thing can enter the presence of God and God was clearly here then Adam and Eve were not unclean ergo the fall was a planned casting out not rejection becasue of failure - hurray for Eve)In addition the Serpent is still in the presence of God when clearly Satan couldn't be (he'd already rebelled and sinned) so the serpent 'must' have been a person / group (or at a stretch a talking snake)
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 4:22)
22 Unto the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
- you can't 'multiply' what isn't already happening - therefore Eve (many) already having children.
Therefore the entire creation and Fall is not as currently read IMHO - since the Fall the earth has been cast out from the presence of God (ie Heaven isn't visible to us) it seems likely that the earth was moved to its present location (a big speculation and unprovable I know) and during that time Adam and Eve cannot have been on the earth - the casting out from the garden of Eden potentially total until the earth is finished and is ready to be reinhabited by the family of Adam (not to say that nobody else was here.)
That would provide at least one answer for the fossil records (to me):
1/ Earth is prepared for life after the fall (ie the pre Fall life was very different - it was immortal)and during its preparation the length of its days, years, proximity to the sun are variable - periods of very,rapid freezes kill large numbers of species, very rapid melts deposit all those frozen bodies along with massive amounts of silt and the problem (for me) of fossilisation is solved - enough mud, enough bodies, few surviving scavengers.
2/ Life is designed to rapidly adapt (Not randomly mutate) and this adaptation is nothing to do with the creation
3/ The final creation period represents the period when Adam and Eve are either reintroduced or there is a huge gap in the biblical record either way the story picks up 6000 years ago after the last great freeze.
I appreciate that there are holes all teh way through this but its just some of my guesses until God shows us how it was done. -
tijkmo
How Long Is a Genesis "Day"?
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Many consider the word "day" used in Genesis chapter 1 to mean 24 hours. However, in Genesis 1:5 God himself is said to divide day into a smaller period of time, calling just the light portion "day." In Genesis 2:4 all the creative periods are called one "day": "This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day [all six creative periods] that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."
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The Hebrew word yohm, translated "day," can mean different lengths of time. Among the meanings possible, William Wilson?s Old Testament Word Studies includes the following: "A day; it is frequently put for time in general, or for a long time; a whole period under consideration . . . Day is also put for a particular season or time when any extraordinary event happens." 1 This last sentence appears to fit the creative "days," for certainly they were periods when extraordinary events were described as happening. It also allows for periods much longer than 24 hours.
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Genesis chapter 1 uses the expressions "evening" and "morning" relative to the creative periods. Does this not indicate that they were 24 hours long? Not necessarily. In some places people often refer to a man?s lifetime as his "day." They speak of "my father?s day" or "in Shakespeare?s day." They may divide up that lifetime "day," saying "in the morning [or dawn] of his life" or "in the evening [or twilight] of his life." So ?evening and morning? in Genesis chapter 1 does not limit the meaning to a literal 24 hours.
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"Day" as used in the Bible can include summer and winter, the passing of seasons. (Zechariah 14:8) "The day of harvest" involves many days. (Compare Proverbs 25:13 and Genesis 30:14.) A thousand years are likened to a day. (Psalm 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8, 10) "Judgment Day" covers many years. (Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24) It would seem reasonable that the "days" of Genesis could likewise have embraced long periods of time?millenniums. What, then, took place during those creative eras? Is the Bible?s account of them scientific? Following is a review of these "days" as expressed in Genesis.
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blondie
Creation book (1985) chap. 3 p. 27 What Does Genesis Say? ***
It would seem reasonable that the "days" of Genesis could likewise have embraced long periods of time?millenniums.
This is one way the WTS has of burying an old doctrine. They once taught that a creative day was 7,000 years long based on the 7th day which we supposedly are in. They taught that 6,000 years would end in 1975 based on Bible chronology and adding 1,000 years for the 1,000 year reign of Christ would bring that up to 7,000 years. With the fiasco of 1975, the WTS has backed away from this by no longer mentioning 7,000 years and instead putting in the ambiguous, long periods of time--millenniums.
Awake 2002 6/8 p. 10 Reconciling Science and Religion ***According to Bible usage, a day is a measured period of time and can be a thousand years or many thousands of years. The Bible?s creative days allow for thousands of years of time each. Further, the earth was already in existence before the creative days began.
Creator book (1998) chap. 6 p. 93 An Ancient Creation Record?Can You Trust It? ***
The fact is, the Bible reveals that the creative "days," or ages, encompass thousands of years.
So the seventh "day" was a period spanning thousands of years, and we can logically conclude the same about the first six "days."
Reasoning book (1989) p. 126 par. 1 Evolution
Thus the ?days? of Genesis chapter 1 could reasonably be thousands of years long.
The Reasoning book replaced the green Make Sure book where on age 87 it has a heading, Length of each of the Seven Days of Creation about 7,000 Years. This is another way the WTS changes a doctrine without announcing it; re-issue a publication with updates or issue a replacement publication such as the Insight volumes for the Aid to Bible Understanding book.
w70 2/15 p. 120 The Days of Creation from God?s Viewpoint ***
This accounts for 6,000 years. Is that the length of the seventh day? No, because we read that "God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred." Its outcome must be "very good," and that is not true of present world conditions; so the "day" must still be continuing. Actually these six thousand years have been, as it were, man?s workweek, in which he labored by the sweat of his face. But he will get rest during the coming thousand-year reign of Christ, which Bible chronology and fulfillment of Bible prophecy show is to begin very soon.?Gen. 2:3.
The seventh one thousand years of the seventh "day" will thus in itself be a sabbath. During it Satan and his demons will be bound. Christ and his anointed followers will rule with him as kings and priests. With what result? That all God?s enemies will be put beneath Christ?s feet. By means of this sabbath the seventh day will truly be sacred, for it will cause righteousness to flourish.?1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:1-6; Psalm 72.
Thus we find the seventh "day" of the creative week to be seven thousand years long. On the basis of the length of the seventh "day" it is therefore reasonable to conclude that each of the other six "days" also was a period of 7,000 years. This length of time would be ample for all that the Bible tells us took place on each of the six days of creation.
w76 7/15 p. 436 Keeping a Balanced View of Time ***
There are reasons why we cannot know this. For one thing, even though Bible chronology clearly indicates that we have reached the mark of six thousand years since the time of the creation of the first human, Adam, it does not tell us just how long after that event the sixth creative day came to its close and the seventh creative period or "day," God?s great rest day, began. Genesis chapter two, verse three, says that Jehovah blessed and made sacred that "day," and it therefore seems reasonable that it will see within its bounds the removal of the wicked old order and the establishment of God?s righteous new order by means of the thousand-year reign of God?s Son. Thus there is reason for believing that that thousand-year period will form the closing part of that great rest day and will restore the earth and its inhabitants to a perfect state. That would enable God to say of that seventh day and its results?as he did of other creative days?that "it was good."?Gen. 1:4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, 31.
w80 11/15 p. 19 Humanity?s State of Health That Might Have Been (still 7,000 yaars)
World events as well as Bible chronology indicate that we are now rapidly nearing the time for the thousand-year-long reign of Jesus Christ to start. His reign of a thousand years for the blessing of all mankind will occupy the last thousand years of Jehovah?s rest day or Sabbath day of seven thousand years. Christ?s reign will be a Sabbath day of exquisite delight for all mankind.
w87 1/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers (still 7,000 years)
Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ?s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God?s 7,000-year ?rest day,? the last ?day? of the creative week. (Revelation 20:6; Genesis 2:2, 3) Based on this reasoning, the entire creative week would be 49,000 years long.
w87 3/1 p. 27 Making All Things New ***
Truly, in a physical way "there is nothing new under the sun"; nor will Jehovah bring forth new material productions during the present 7,000-year day of resting from his works of creation
The first changeover occurs in 1988 in the Insight volumes which replaced the Aid to Bible Understanding book.
it-1 p. 545 Creation ***
And, since the seventh day has been continuing for thousands of years, it may reasonably be concluded that each of the six creative periods, or days, was at least thousands of years in length.
it-1 p. 594 Day ***
This makes it evident that each creative day, or work period, was at least thousands of years in length.
And from 1988 forward the WTS never mentions the 7,000 creative day again. No article, no question from readers, nada.
By quietly backing away from the 7,000 year creative day is this way, the WTS does not highlight its error in using this reasoning to establishing that 6,000 years of human history would end in 1975 thus making it an appropriate time for Armageddon to come.
Just like many JWs still fail to understand the change in the 1914 generation teaching changed in 1995, so many oldtimers failed to understand or recognize this change in WTS doctrine.
Blondie
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tijkmo
just noticed this blondie ...thanx
so in 1985 (in creationg book) they said creative days were indefinite length..but then in 1987 repeated 7000yrs thinking
im confused
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blondie
It was a transition period. Since 1988 there has been no repeat of the 7,000 creative day.
I'm sure the JWs who noticed then were confused. Most JWs baptized in the last 10 years haven't a clue about how adamant the WTS was about a creative day being 7,000 years long before then. And the change to the ambiguous "thousands of years" slipped by many oldtimers.
Blondie
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ballistic
I wonder what the original Hebrew for "day" means. For example, saying what happened on day one, day two, could mean.... this happened first, this happened second.
This is not to say I believe the bible, just curious.