Are Elders Out of Control?

by metatron 9 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  metatron

  I remember a time when the Society exercised a significant
  degree of discipline over elders. Brothers were commonly
  removed for having rebellious children or serious
  wrongdoing.

  Boy, those days seem like a distant memory!

  Now, as long as the 'good old boys' in the local inner
  circle agree, the skies the limit! Adultery, lying,
  child molesting, fraud, theft, - you name it!
  Just keep it out of public view and you're OK!
  Not only that, but you can ignore any or all of the
  Society's rules on congregational procedure and still
  remain as an elder.

  You can df or DA ANYBODY as long as they are unpopular
  or marginal. The Society will almost never reverse
  a judicial action taken, no matter how unjust or
  exaggerated it might be. Remember how elders used to
  look for a letter to DA a person? Now, all it takes is
  a faint doubt, a few loose words, and you're out!

  Are any of these new 'committees' going to reform
  this? I think it's going to get worse if that Loyalty/
  Moses/ We Are Appointed by God talk is any clue.

  Perhaps it will bring them all down that much sooner.
  The witch hunters at Salem defeated themselves this way.

  metatron
• 

  exodus

  Hi Metatron,

  You are so right! I'm almost out for having doubts. I'm just waiting for the final curtain call. I'm trying my best to deter disfellowshiping by getting legal advice. They are out to take me down seriously. It is frustrating to defend yourself against this organization. They really mean business.

  Exodus- movement of the people.
• 

  Jim Lad

  Exodus, read a book by Ray Franz and your doubts will be confirmed! It sucks to know the truth isn't the truth but would you rather live a lie? (not being condescending)
• 

  exodus

  JL,

  I did and they are both fantastic books. That's why they think I'm a threat and want to disfellowship me. Thanks anyway for recommending this books.
• 

  gsark

  Aways back my JW son-in-law was interviewed with the goal of being recomended eventually for the position of elder. I beleive they outright asked him to be an MS, but you know they question everyone on 'loyalty' etc.

  He was 19 at the time.

  He respectfully refused, saying he was thinking of moving, and sick, and wanted to work full time and every excuse he could think of. The congregation hardly recognized his existance for some time after that.

  The bottom line, and what ties the 'out of control' elders and my son-in-law's experiences together is the obvious fact that the WT is loosing its brightest and best in near hemorrhage numbers. The org is merely protecting at all costs a vanishing and endangered species. ('qualified' elders).

  What the org will end up having is quantity insteady of quality.

  My son-in-law told me (through my non-JW son) that he never wanted to be in front of a judicial commitee, and so he will never sit on one. A very lovely boy.

  Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!
• 

  Francois

  Gsark, you are so right about how no one with any personal honor and intelligence wants to be an elder or ms. And it goes further than that.

  No one with any personal honor/intelligence wants to be a JW of any kind; not elder, ms, or R&F publisher. Makes you wonder how many people occupying seats in kingdom halls are there for reasons other than allegiance to the "faith". Reasons like maintaining relationships with wives, husbands, fathers, mothers, sisters.... well, you get the idea.

  And as this phenomena continues to evolve (parents/siblings/etc. die, ending the need for anyone to stay in to maintain relationships) the quality of the membership of JWs continues to decline. The membership IMO can't help but become less intelligent, less interested or able to question questionable teachings, more likely to follow any teaching, no matter how absurd.

  In fact, it's getting more and more like that now. Writers know it's important to design their writing to fit the intelligence of the reader, otherwise what you've got to say will go over their heads. Take a look at the writing in the Watchtower; simplistic, easy to read noun/verb combinations with very few subordinate clauses, much less subjunctive; very few polysyllabic words, etc. And the questions! My god, the questions! Questions of the "who's buried in Grant's Tomb" sort. Don't want those publishers missing the point, missing answering those questions. It's a HOOT!

  When it's all said and done, the effect of the policies and teachings of JWs virtually guarantee a declining quality of member, less intelligent, less able, less questioning. And the type of leaders thrown up from among this sub-standard group...well, you can just imagine. If you think they're bad now...

  Evil contains the seed of its own inexorable destruction. And the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is manifestly evil.

  Francois

  Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.
• 

  gsark

  Perhaps that is another, maybe even truer reason there was no df'ing/shunning before the fifties. The quality of the membership was just too high prior to those days.

  And I agree with you on another thing; I'd have to ask why anyone would join a religion like this today, what kind of person would be comfortable in an organization like this? And someone who knows it's history?

  Sheesh.

  Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!
• 

  Room 215

  The short answer, of course, is YES.
  Emboldened by a judicial system that basically tells that if we shirk on due dligence before we join up, we deserve whatever consequences befall us, the WTBTS and its local lackeys feel empowered to run rough-shod over the sheep.
  This will continue unless or until Caesar bloodies their noses. I'm convinced that all it would take for a liberalization back to mid-fifties dfing policies is for the Society to lose one big lawsuit, with an attendant seven-figure judgment. With them, money doesn't just talk, it fairly SCREAMS! (See Swaggart, France, etc.)
  Sadly, I don't see anything like this on the horizon.
• 

  bboyneko

  hey, who is buried in Grants tomb anyway?
• 

  Maximus

  bboy, a good opportunity for me to thank you for your generous offer, which has been passed on to Dateline.

  Room215, be assured the Society is going to get more than a bloody nose of 7 figures. It's not just on the horizon any more.

  Francois, what are you talking about? You didn't see this gem:

  The new w9/1/2001 Questions from Readers asks about Col 1:16, "In what sense were all things created 'for' God's Son, Jesus." Pictures of desert, waterfall, snowy lake ..... CHILDREN.

  'Jesus was used to create everything and he takes pleasure in it.' "Jehovah God derived enjoyment from Israel when his people were faithful. He also derives joy from the faithfulness of his loyal ones down to our time." Hmmm, isn't that an awfully teeny and declining number? Wonder how He feels about abused children. What rules and procedures would Jesus institute in a policy manual?

  'Jesus derives pleasure from his accomplishments,' we read, the Son was 'glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things he was fond of were with the sons of men.' "It is in this sense that Col 1:16 says ...."

  Is that not thrilling? As JT says, deeeeeeeeeeeep!

  Max