So when I have to explain what I believe to people and how it can coinside with one another I must mention the Jesus Sutras. What are they?
They're a group of teachings that go back centuries. A group of Christian monks left Persia to enter China in the year 635, and established a small Christian community inside China. The people at first welcomed them very warmly and were very interested in what they had to say about religion. In fact, the local people called this new religion "the Luminous Religion." The people wrote some of the teachings and stories down, and as they did that, they mixed them with their own Buddhist and Taoist ideas. Some of the writings are very close to the gospel stories.
These documents were kept in a cave because, after a while, these Christians weren't so warmly received. They hid the documents, which weren't discovered until 1900. They really haven't been made accessible to us until just recently.
These sutras don't represent a highly developed theology. There's a simplicity about them, a folk quality that represents ordinary people trying to understand what the new teaching is.
Some of the sutras are similar to Christian texts that Westerners would know?there's the story of Jesus, for instance. Other sections seemed much more Taoist. With some, if you were reading them in isolation you wouldn't think they had any connection to Christianity.
For example, there's a part where Jesus talks about karma. That's not something you normally associate with Jesus?you wouldn't, because karma is not a Christian idea. But when it's put in the mouth of Jesus, it makes you think about more familiar words like sin. You think differently.
I'm not trying to say this is Christian teaching. There's no argument here. But putting the two together makes you think, "I wonder if the Christian teaching might have a deeper understanding if we did associate it with the idea of karma for a moment."
What would happen if Christians were more open to karma?
Their ideas of morality would change slightly. I think this is another key idea in the Jesus Sutras as a whole. A lot of people think of Christianity as a moral religion: what is right and wrong, what not to do, people in authority telling you how to live. The trouble with that is if you follow all these things, you may not really live a moral life. You may be following the RULES, but not be deepening your ethical sense as you grow up and live a more complicated life.
If you're thinking of karma, you don't have quite that same emphasis on morality. Instead, you realize that everything you do, every minute, has its impact and consequences. That leads to a moral way of living, but with a different quality than the one I described before.
Make sense?
Buddhist / Taoist / Christian Hybrid
by EvilForce 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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EvilForce
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Qcmbr
Yes. Thanks EF I'll look up these writings - are they online?
I've always loved reading and thinking about buddhist and taoist teachings. There are so many concepts that enrich and enlighten the other thinking - when I read these these ideas its like little lights going on inside and I see myself reappraising christian teachings.
When I read the NT I tread a difficult path when I try and tease nuggets of meaning from verses of scripture written by a culture two thousand years removed from me and then translated through to my english culture and the english culture of medieval to modern day. Add to that my personality and sometimes I think my understanding is a million miles away from the original. Finding new approaches to the same philosophical and practical problems - ideas such as karma really illustrate the ideas well.
I read a book on eastern thinking and western scientific thinking - it was brilliant (chaos and vishnu section was an eye opener.) -
Markfromcali
And amongst the different traditions, there are people who recognize that these are just vehicles.
I was listening to a talk given by this order of Christian mystics recently, and they noted there are different ways of training, like zen and sufism has all the discipline done in the beginning, whereas they don't do that and they also incorporate psychotherapy.
Basically identification with your karmic structure would be egoic consciousness, even if it is your own spiritual training. However that training does provide you with useful conditioning, but the whole point is you go beyond that so you can use the karma instead of being used by it, so to speak.
There are people from different traditions working together, but it is not really an interfaith thing as one might imagine. It's not a matter of having a dialogue and working out a synthesis of belief structures, it is a matter of already coming from the same understanding.
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SixofNine
Everyone needs a hobby.
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SixofNine
Alternate, less flip answer based on actually reading the original post: B) The reciprocity concept (golden rule) is just the karma concept without the voodoo. Of course, that saying pre-dates Jesus, but he (or his myth, take your pick) made it famous.
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doogie
EF:
you know, i remember you mentioning this on a thread the other day and i seriously was going to PM you to ask you to elaborate. thanks
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EvilForce
Karma is truly an interesting and deep study...not as easy as a concept as many bandy about quite loosely.
Q, I am not aware of any online postings of the Sutras. The book I got it from was The Lost Sutras of Jesus. At Amazon it's $ 12 new, $ 10 used...so that's what 7 pounds? Cheap read none the less. Here's the link for the UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1569753601/qid=1117132000/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl/202-7801582-7012662
6 of 9 have you done any studying of eastern religion? -
EvilForce
Half Empty or Half Full?
Would an optimist say a glass is half full,
Where a pessimist would say it is half empty?
A glass may be made of anything,
But its function lies in its emptiness.
That emptiness may be filled with whatever we choose.
The pessimist sees future potential;
The optimist sees only what is gone.
While others grow thirsty as they debate this point,
A Taoist drinks the water,
And is refreshed. -
Abaddon
Dharma (as in 'manner of being') is far more interesting than karma, which I don't believe of in anything other than the "what goes around comes around" sense.
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EvilForce
The basics of buddhism:
The Four Noble Truths are:
? The first truth is the observation that suffering or unhappiness, referred to as dukkha, is pervasive in life. Dukka is explained to be suffering or unhappiness of any kind. (i.e. the desire for wealth or respect, the distaste for bad weather).
? The second truth explains that the cause of dukkha is craving or clutching at life. Our unhappiness results from our desiring to make life fit our preconceptions of what should be or what we would like it to be.
? The third truth explains that dukkha can be ended by ending the craving, which in turn, can be achieved by following the fourth truth.
The fourth truth reveals to follow The Noble Eightfold Path.
The Noble Path reveals the following:
? The first and second relate to right views and right understanding of the mind. These proposals require proper understanding of Buddha's method (nature of dukkha).
? The third, fourth, and fifth paths refer to right speech, right conduct, and right vocation. They offer simple suggestions of prudence. One should follow "the path" to achieve spiritual goodness.
? The sixth, seventh and eighth paths apply to meditation. Right effort, right awareness(smiriti), and right contemplation (smadhi) are necessary to achieve complete meditation.