larc and the cognitive unconscious

by dunsscot 7 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  dunsscot

  Dear Doctor larc,

  I have a question to ask you. This question has perplexed me for years.

  Rod Plotnik writes about Freud's theory of the unconscious and notes that Freud thought that encounters with "threatening wishes or desires, especially if they are sexual or aggressive" make us "automatically defend our self-esteem by placing these psychologically threatening thoughts in a mental place that is called the unconscious, from which these thoughts cannot be voluntarily recalled."

  But Plotnik goes on to observe that cognitive psychologists have now developed a different concept of the unconscious called "the cognitive unconscious." He describes the cognitive unconscious as "the mental and emotional processes that we are unaware of but that bias and influence our conscious feelings, thoughts, and behaviors."

  I guess I wonder how we could ever know that we actually possess any type of unconsciousness. If we are unaware of mental and emotional processes, how can we really prove that they bias and influence our conscious thoughts and behaviors? Is there any way to scientifically verify the actual existence of an unconscious? Lastly, I've wondered if it is not more appropriate to speak in terms of the conscious and its unconscious aspects. In other words, maybe the unconscious IS the conscious during its unconscious moments. What do you think?

  Thank you larc. I'll pay on the way out, Doc.

  Dan

  Duns the Scot
• 

  larc

  Hello Duns,

  Freud believed that parts of both the Id and the Superego, were buried in the unconscious. He believed that unconscious thought could be retrieved through indirect means, such as dreams, and free association of both childhood memories and words. Unconscious processes are also evident when someone resorts to one of the defense mechanisms. Others can readily see their operation, but not the one engaging in it.

  As far as the term, "cognitive unconscious", I really don't see a difference in what Freud said and what the newer psychologists are saying.

  As far as scientic evidence, I was generally skeptical until I saw a program about Facilitated Communication (FC). FC was a technique to get autistic children to communicate. A facilitator would sit next to the child, hold their arm and the child would type out sentences on a keyboard. This was thought to be a major break through in helping these children. Sadly enough, the children were not communicating at all. It was the adult facilitator who was doing all of it. Tragicly, a number of the facilitators wrote messages about sexual abuse of the autistic child by members of their families. These thoughts could only come from the unconscious of the adult facilitator. This phenomena made me a believer in the concept.

  As far as trying to reach into the depths of the unconscious, I don't see the value of it for most people. Freud's therapy, with all its probing was not very successful, and Catharis, as opposed to the common cultural view is not very useful.

  Since this only took a few minutes to write, I won't charge you for this visit.
• 

  ladonna

  The paragraph below was written by Greg Stafford; not myself.....but Duns....your writing style is so close to his one could almost believe.....well???????
  And Mr Stafford also picks people to shreds for grammar????

  P.S....Ever thought of behaviour therapy???

  Ana .....You're good....
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  [< I hope this is not going to be a recurring pattern in your response, Mr. Hommel, but, again, he can say whatever he wants, but the fact is D-M makes reference to a grammatical parallel to John 1:1, which they translate with an indefinite article. How is it that you cannot see this simple point? If I make reference to two texts that use the same grammatical construction and I then translate one of them a certain way, I am then making it allowable to translate the other passage with the same grammatical construction in the same way. Of course, we always consider the different contexts and other relevant issues before offering a translation, but that is where factors other than grammar come into play. Here we are speaking of the grammatical basis presented in the D-M grammar upon which one could say that such and such is allowable. For D-M to parallel the grammar of John 1:1 to Anabasis 1.4.6 and to then translate the predicate nominative in Anabasis 1.4.6 as "a market," certainly ALLOWS for (grammatically) the predicate in John 1:1c. to likewise have an indefinite article in translation. Whether they view the predicate as having the same semantic is irrelevant to the fact that the grammatical construction itself is capable of bearing the indefinite/qualitative semantic. I explained all of this in my response, which you reference below, but for some reason this point was not clear to you.>]

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• 

  Mommie Dark

  LaDonna dearest: with all due respect to you: DUH!!!!!

  Too bad Greg is too cowardly to post here with the same persona he uses to defend the cult. Hypocrite? Hell yes! Surprise? Naah.
• 

  Seeker

  Although I wouldn't put it past Greg to sneak back here under yet another persona, I see no resemblance between Greg's style and dun's.
• 

  SlayerLayer

  I guess I wonder how we could ever know that we actually possess any type of unconsciousness. If we are unaware of mental and emotional processes, how can we really prove that they bias and influence our conscious thoughts and behaviors? Is there any way to scientifically verify the actual existence of an unconscious? Lastly, I've wondered if it is not more appropriate to speak in terms of the conscious and its unconscious aspects. In other words, maybe the unconscious IS the conscious during its unconscious moments.

  To find the answer, look no further than the wonderful world of ACID!

  While I am tripping balls at the moment, I can honestly say that you have sent me into a spiraling whirl of hmmmm.....
• 

  dunsscot

  Dear Doc,

  :As far as trying to reach into the depths of the unconscious, I don't see the value of it for most people. Freud's therapy, with all its probing was not very successful, and Catharis, as opposed to the common cultural view is not very useful.

  Since this only took a few minutes to write, I won't charge you for this visit.:

  Thanks for the free help, Doc. I will mark it down on your merit sheet. :-) I really found the information about autistic children and FC fascinating. I currently have a close relative, who has REALLY been told he suffers from asperger's syndrome. I am thus interested in mild and more severe forms of autism.

  Take care!

  Duns the Scot
• 

  dunsscot

  Slayer: To find the answer, look no further than the wonderful world of ACID!

  While I am tripping balls at the moment, I can honestly say that you have sent me into a spiraling whirl of hmmmm.....:

  Watch the acid, buddy. It could be dangerous and might also produce a condition known as ekstasis in ancient Greek.

  Love you too, man.

  Dan

  Duns the Scot