confidential confession

by anon 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • anon
    anon

    This is a story appearing on abc's news website.
    " http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/religionconfession_010802.html

    I post it here since it relates to what elders could/should do in child abuse cases.

    AA Confession Ruled Confidential
    Federal Judge Overturns Manslaughter Conviction

    By David Ruppe

    Aug. 2 — A man's confession at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting to two killings was constitutionally protected and shouldn't have been used against him, a federal judge in New York ruled in overturning a 1995 manslaughter verdict.

    The judge ruled, as had previous New York appellate decisions, that Alcoholics Anonymous — a self-described "spiritual" fellowship dedicated to helping members stop drinking and recover from alcoholism — engages in constitutionally protected religious activity.

    The man, 33-year-old Paul Cox, was sentenced to a minimum of 16 years in prison for the killings of two people in their home in 1988. Cox's arrest and conviction resulted from his confessions to fellow Alcoholics Anonymous members, according to Tuesday's ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Charles Brieant.

    Such confessions are an important of AA's famous "12 Step" program for recovery, which AA says has helped more than 2 million people stop drinking.

    The group encourages confessions and identities of members to remain anonymous, so as not to discourage others from joining and following the program.

    AA Ruled Religious

    Brieant's judgment hinged on his finding that Alcoholics Anonymous members engage in religious activity as part of the program.

    "The record before this Court shows that in addition to the numerous religious references in the Twelve Steps, meetings of AA are closed with a recitation of The Lord's Prayer," he wrote.

    Brieant also cites as precedent, an earlier Court of Appeals ruling that AA "is a religion," and so courts couldn't compel persons to attend the meetings.

    "He's bound by that other case," said Father Robert Drinan, a Georgetown University Law School professor.

    Brieant said in his ruling that while AA may not traditionally be called a religion, the group engages in religious communications that should be protected by the First Amendment.

    The First Amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech …."

    "Clearly it is possible as a matter of Constitutional law to have and to practice a religion without having a clergyman as such," Brieant wrote. "[I]f the state is treating AA meetings with less protection than any other form of religious communication which carries assurances of confidentiality, a Constitutional violation exists."

    Not a Religion

    Lawyers representing New York state argued the contrary: "There was no evidence whatsoever that Alcoholics Anonymous is a religious organization as required by statute, or that another member is a clergyman or other member of any religion or duly accredited Christian Science practitioner."

    Brieant "is creating by judicial fiat an additional privilege that is outside of the scope of the state Legislature," said David Hebert, the executive assistant district attorney for Westchester County, where the case was prosecuted.

    Hebert contends AA confessions should not be considered confidential because AA says it is not a religion and is a nonprofessional organization, whose members are not, like doctors, lawyers or priests, trained to hear confessions or other privileged information.

    Further, he says Cox's confessions were made outside of AA meetings.

    "The intent of privileges appears to apply almost exclusively, with the possible exception of the spousal privilege, to individuals who have some kind of professional duty, obligation, knowledge," Hebert said. "This is not the case in an Alcoholics Anonymous setting."

    The district attorney's office will appeal the decision, he said. Cox will be held at least until that ruling.

    What's a Religious Communication?

    Brieant noted New York law states the Constitution protects confessions to a clergyman or "other minister of any religion or duly accredited Christian Science practitioner."

    And, he wrote, previous rulings by the New York federal Court of Appeals found separately that, to avoid prejudice of one religion over another, the protection would apply to confessions to all spiritual advisers.

    "Doctrinally and as actually practiced in the Twelve Step methodology, adherence to the AA fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and religious proselytization," said a 1996 decision.

    AA Says It's Not a Religion

    For its part, Alcoholics Anonymous, in a fact sheet posted on its national Web site, says it is not a religion: "No. Nor is it allied with any religious organization."

    A spokesperson for the organization, however, said AA "considers ourselves a spiritual organization."

    That spiritual quality is apparent in the 12 Step program. Step 2, for instance, reads members have "made a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." For Step 5, members "admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs." Step 6 says members "were entirely ready to remove all these defects of character."

    The AA spokesperson, who requested anonymity in the organization's tradition, said AA had no opinion on the court ruling.

    It is group's policy not to comment on "outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy," said another brochure.

    "AA should be happy with this, because this vindicates the fact that if you do confess and somebody squeals that can't be used against you," says Drinan. "That's an added incentive for these people to confess to each other."

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    The "clique" here that continues to argue that the courts should not extend the "confidentially privilege" to JWs because "they don't have trained clergy" should find this Federal Court Opinion somewhat educating.

    Most people understand that the US Constitution prohibits the government from treating religions unequally, or much less prying into how a religion chooses to select or train its leaders (clergy).

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    This kind of ruling is insane and goes completely against common sense. If the First Amendment were intended to be interpreted strictly, then a religion whose primary doctrine is human sacrifice would be permissible. So would one whose primary doctrine is the violent overthrow of the U.S. government. Obviously the framers of the Constitution never intended to permit such things. The rulings of such insane judges are completely screwing up U.S. law and they need to be stopped.

    AlanF

  • seven006
    seven006

    Alan,

    I say we feed them some of Rilla's humus and kill them all!

    Dave

  • sf
    sf

    Hi Alan,

    Here you say:

    "The rulings of such insane judges are completely screwing up U.S. law and they need to be stopped."

    So, how will the cases involving the WTBTS fair with such a conclusion as this statement? What are the victims chances with such "insane judges"? Who's running the USCourt system in the first place, that such insanity STILL (con)tinues? How CAN they be stopped? Who WILL step up and do the task?

    sKally, inquiring Mind needs to know, but not sure that WILL ever happen klass

    truth IS...a lie. Nothing is true, because truth is not something to behold...it ravages and savages the heart, body and soul (thus saith I and only I hold this truth to be self evident; ha! is that truth?)

  • sf
    sf

    Some related tidbets re: AA:

    < http://www.users.bigpond.com/pmurray/exchristian/links.html

    Deprogramming for Alcoholics Anonymous
    The intent of this site is to publicly address some very serious issues which concern the well known program of Alcoholics Anonymous. At first glance, this popular abstinence program appears to save countless lives, but upon closer examination we find that a notable amount of individuals suffer further as a result of AA thought reform. The contributors to this site have found that AA has a dark side which is rarely discussed in meetings and is discussed only in a limited capacity in print.

    I went through this "program(ing)" at one time. I could never get with the god concept stuff.

    sKally

  • sf
    sf

    Some AA insight:

    < http://www.recovery.org/aa/bigbook/ww/index.html

    I cannot get the "Deprogramming for AA" to open all the way. The page has an error.

  • sf
    sf

    "AA...America's Religion" (1996):

    < http://www.execpc.com/~dcoy/PEDS/rrgroups.htm#aa-go

  • Andee
    Andee

    I find the court ruling appalling. Having spent a number of years in various 12 step programs, I can affirm that AA, and other related 12 a step programs, endorse the idea that one must have a "high power" or God in order to get sober. That being said, you can make that God who or whatever you want.

    The only REAL qualification for being a leader in the organization is to have a number of years of sobriety. I have been to enough meetings to know that some of the people that attend and run them are pretty scary.

    There are also similarites between the WTS and AA. Granted with AA one can come and go as they please without any real conseguenes. However, the general attitude is that of "this is the ONLY way you will be able to stop drinking". You MUST attend so many meetings per week and that EVERYTHING else in life is secondary to sobriety. If one stops going to meetings then they are doomed to start drinking (using, etc) again. Some individuals have been going for over 20 years. Like WTS it becomes their whole life.

    Most Alcohol and drug rehabs base their treatment programs on the 12 steps of AA. They also make it manditory to attend meetings. The problem with this is that because of the anonymity of AA no one really knows if it works or not, because no accurate studies can be done as to it's affectiveness. In fact, most hospital treatment programs assume that their first time patients will drink (use) again.
    That it takes many times of "going out there" before they "make the decision" to become clean and sober.

    I have personal experiences with this. However, I will spare everyone the details. Just wanted to give a little inside info about AA.

    Andee

  • spike
    spike

    Having personal experience with 12 step people. I find addictive personalities can go to far in anything. I find 12 step programs spiritual in nature but not religious. There are even Atheists and agnostics 12 step groups. So a higher power is whatever you make it. Alcoholism and drug addictions kill. I would rather see a person involved in 12 step programs than go to their funeral.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit