Asking for critique on ‘Great Crowd’ article

by martorii 4 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  martorii

  Hello all,
  
  At the link below there is a discussion of the ‘Great Crowd’ in Rev 7:15.
  
  I would like to ask if anyone could please take a look and offer a critique to that material.
  
  http://exegeza.martorii.com/Exegesis/Un_Unnumbered_Crowd.htm
  
  Below is a summary of the article from the link mentioned above:
  
  Similarities between Numbers 1:44-50 and Rev 7:9-15
  
  1. In Numbers: We are told the number of the12 tribes of ancient Israel.
  - In Revelation: We have 144,000 out of 12 tribes of Israel
  
  2. In Numbers: Then the prohibition that Levites are not to be numbered.
  - In Revelation: We have a Great Crowd that no man is able to number
  
  3. In Numbers: The Levites have their dresses washed in order to do work at the temple
  - In Revelation: Great Crowd washed their robes to serve in his temple
  
  Similarities between Isaiah 61, 66 and Revelation 7
  
  Is 61:5,6 A remnant, from all 12 tribes of Israel will be called priests of God
  - In Revelation: 12,000 out of an entire tribe suggests a remnant
  
  Is 66:21 And foreigners will serve them as Levites.
  - In Revelation: Great Crowd is not from the tribes of Israel, therefore foreigners
• 

  mad max

  Could not go into the site as I am at work and only allowed a short time on the net....

  all I know is that the great crowd is standing in HEAVEN.

  But thanks for that very interesting.. will go later on that site when I have a little more time.
• 

  martorii

  The purpose of the discussion above is:

  - To prove that the 'Great Crowd' represents the 'Levites'.

  1. Similarities between Numbers 1:44-50 and Rev 7:9-15 prove that the Great Crowd from Revelation represents the Levites in the OT.

  Then

  2. Similarities between Isaiah 61, 66 and Revelation 7 prove that the Great Crowd from Revelation represents the foreigners who become Levites.

  If anyone has any input or questions, please feel free to share.

  Thanks, martorii.
• 

  Sad emo

  Thanks for the link. It's possibly the one of the most most readable articles I ever saw on this subject. I have a few questions, forgive me if they sound a little stupid but this is a topic that I never really sat down and studied properly before.

  2. Similarities between Isaiah 61, 66 and Revelation 7 prove that the Great Crowd from Revelation represents the foreigners who become Levites.

  If so, would this show that they aren't a seperate class from the Great Crowd after all, the only difference being that the 144000 got there earlier? Or would another possible comparison for the Great Crowd be those who in OT times dedicated themselves to the service of the Lord and spent all their time in the Temple (eg Nazirites, other holy people such as Simeon).

  This means that after their coming out of the great tribulation, and later in the millennium, many others will join their number. This is possible because the members of the great crowd are not sealed as faithful before the millennium, as is the case with the 144,000.

  I think another common link with this might be that the 'true' Levites were so by birth only - hence they were 'sealed' or set apart before birth, then after Jesus came, the whole nation (of the 'new Israel' were declared a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9).

  How does your previous post about the use of naos/hieron (which as a non-JW was a little confusing to me!) fit with all this? Would that just split the two groups apart again so that even though they are in the same temple building, so the 144000 would be in the sanctuary (naos) and the Great Crowd in the general Temple area (hieron)? Or would you say that only Jesus as the great High Priest is 'beyond the veil' in the 'naos' and everyone else is out in the 'hieron' area?
• 

  martorii

  Sad emo,

  Thanks for your comments.

  Q. You ask if this shows that they aren't a separate class.

  A. Both discussion of similarities with the book of Numbers and the book of Isaiah identify the following distinct groups:

  1. First the 144,000 group

  2. Second the Great Crowd group

  These are separate groups, both in Revelation and also in Numbers and Isaiah.

  Q. You also ask about 'naos' and 'hieron'.

  A. The article suggests that both groups will serve in 'naos'

  - First group, Israel will become a nation of priests and will serve in the Most Holy (or Holy of Holies)

  - Second group, Levites will also serve at the temple, but in the Holy Place.

  Please feel free to share any other comments, questions, concerns ..etc.

  Regards, martorii.