World within world

by Deacon 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  Deacon

  It took me a long time to figure out what is happening. For those of us that have been lifetime or long time Witnesses, the simplest of things are totally overlooked...because we never thought about it.

  All through the pages of the Bible, we see how men of old gripped hold of their relationship as individuals, and as a people for Jehovahs name, and went against the social and legal systems of the times.

  The WTBTS have assumed that role today. They have a worldwide kingdom, a government and local rulers to implement "legal' and moral judgements upon the subject. They really have assumed the mantel of a "new world order"

  That is why, areas of human weakness, child abuse, smoking, drinking, marital relationships, stealing, violence etc, are dealt with "in house" so to speak.

  The original idea was to look "beyond" the action, and look at the heart for repentance in evidence. Sadly, this overstepping of the boundaries of the "other" world that is lived in, and is now reaping the consequences. The implementation of the elder system, designed to help the rank and file, has largely failed due to the lack of adequate training for men assigned as ministers to the congregations.

  I can understand why the WTBTS have taken the actions they have in dealing with secular authorities regarding the transgressing of "laws"... it comes down to believing that the JW's have a higher authority in all aspects of humanity. They alone have the right on Jehovahs behalf to judge.

  It doesnt work like that in real life. The Society is now gearing up for legal assaults on a lot of fronts. Had they stuck to the preaching and teaching work, had they not "run ahead of Jehovah" with guessing dates, and times , and false interpretations....and left wrongdoing to secular God allowed authorities....and only fought the battles pertaining to freedom to worship....all would have been well.

  I have been saddened for all those who have been hurt by the wrong actions of members of the WTBTS in dealing with us on both personal and doctrinal fronts. Dates, actions, beliefs have all changed over the years, and adherence to current policy whether personally
  believed or not, is the only thing that prevents removal from the organisation, even if we totally oppose current thinking. The new world order has gone too far in implementing a regime of having a comment on every facet of human life and action.

  Does this make Jehovahs Witnesses wrong? Has the experience we have had with the intracacies of the application of the religion, destroyed faith in God?

  I have a great deal of respect for most of the posters on this board and conversed with several, Farkel, Comf, Freepeace, Kent, JanH. the ladies too numerous to mention but not least, mommy, think4, PLH, our Ozzie contingent...also some real special friends among which is 6. Most of you, if not all of you no longer believe in God as such anymore.

  Is this a direct result of the dissapointment of your experience with the WTBTS and the natural outcome of escaping a form of emotional repression, or is it just the way it is?

  Is there any vestige of belief left in the Bible, in the prospect of eternal life or in .....well anything bible related?

  It takes a whole heap of courage to live a life that has meaning. It takes some inner faith and some internal battles to overcome the sad things that happen. A lot of new posters on this board are feeling empty, frightened, ripped apart, lost and just plain suicidal at times because of the loss of faith internally...the questions rage.. Have I grieved the Holy Spirit? Have I deserted my God? Has he deserted me? Where will I go? What can I believe in? Am I doing wrong by reading this board? Will Jehovah help me if I truly cant follow the WTBTS?

  It goes on.

  There are a lot of people in the WTBTS that I dont like personally. People who are backstabbing, conditional and totally false...there are a lot that I do like and admire greatly..and I believe who like me....but it is all based on whether I remain a total 3 times a week attender and a field service hound...or am smooth enough to make them believe I am...

  I hope we all find the strength to live our lives with meaning and contentment, for sure enough, 2 thirds of the world are not having it easy...

  And one day we find the answer....
• 

  Prisca

  Nice to see you back Deacon. Hope you are finding peace within yourself.

  You make some very good observations regarding the social make-up of the Society. They see themselves as a seperate entity, almost oblivious to the laws of the land, or at least the laws that they don't agree with. That is why they refer to non-Witnesses as "wordly people", making a definate demarcation between themselves and "everyone else". Time and affections spent on "worldly people" are kept to a bare minimum, even if they are co-workers or relatives, while fellow JWs are regarded as "brothers" and "sisters" regardless how well or how little you know them.

  Has the experience we have had with the intracacies of the application of the religion, destroyed faith in God?

  In my experience, it was a case of wanting to get closer to God that drew me away from enslavement to the WTS. I could see from my personal study of the Bible that the WTS were NOT following the examples set for us by Christ and the early Christians.

  Since I left the Borg, I still believe in God and the Bible. I do look at it from a slightly different angle, and am still looking and learning all the time. I enjoy having the freedom to study the Bible without having to use the blinkers supplied and insisted upon by the WTS.

  As you said, I like some individuals who are still JWs. I feel sorry for them, and wish I was able to share what I now know with them. But I know what their reaction would be, as 5 years ago I too would have shrunk away anything that sounded the remotest like "apostasy"!!

  We live in amazing times, and I am thankful that I have found greater peace since leaving the Witnesses and their unscriptural man-made laws.
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  Tina

  Hi deacon,
  My non belief in supernatural entities didn't come from my disappointing jw experience,nor did that experience 'destroy' that belief.
  Upon leaving,my concern was getting the facets of life working again in normal society,and functioning in that society. Later on,I did start researching and looking at what the whole theological concept of god was based on and about. This time I felt free to use all of the resources out there,not just approved JW ones.
  What I discovered and pondered on led me to my personal conclusions.
  I learned that one doesn't have to be steeped in myth and superstition to be ethical and have integrity. I learned it doesn't take a 'faith' in those myths,but it takes a committment of positive ethical personal responsibility to making one's world a better 'place' For self and others.

  As for those who leave feeling confused. That seems to me to be a normal response. Critical thinking kicks in again. Confusion demands an honest exploration of self and what your place in the world is.
  It's a personal and individual journey. Each one of us will explore and find what 'makes sense' on that individual journey. And if that journey leads out of the judeao-christian box that's ok too. In a nutshell,it was NOT out of any negative feeling/motivation,but curiousity and a willingness to look honestly at information out there from a global viewpoint. Global in the sense of looking out of the pre-programmed boxes that biased our previous thinking.
  Anyway just my thoughts. Wishing you well,Tina
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  Pathofthorns

  Hey Deacon, enjoyed your post.

  Much of it reminds me of an elder friend and his wife and the difficult position they find themselves in. No one wants to throw the "baby out with the bathwater", and just because the religion is wrong, does that mean everything is?

  It is more difficult to question the heart of things that we always thought were the "absolutes" in life, the foundation of everything we believed and hoped. Most people just want to know that there are answers, some sort of authority to tell them they are right or wrong and for there to be something beyond this life.

  Much of this is based on fear and superstition. There has been a fear of dying and a fear of God and punishment put in many of us. These sorts of things are not positive emotions and feelings and take away from enjoying life.

  I had to ask myself, "what do we know for sure?" I think when one simply looks at the answer to this, we know very little for sure beyond what we can see around us. It is hard sometimes to let go of what we want to believe.

  Having been out for a little while and having been free to ask the questions, I feel there are no pretty answers. Life is about learning and growing and our relationships with people and the world around us. It is time to live and enjoy life and move on from the past.

  I am very comfortable now not knowing the answers to the "big questions". I'd rather say "i don't know" than to believe something someone has just made up to pacify the people.

  I am also increasingly comfortable letting those who wish to remain in their little make believe worlds do so. Worrying about those left behind, those who refuse to think and choose to remain ignorant only weighs one down. We can lead people to the "water", but it is up to them if they wish to drink it.

  I think to the degree one is able to let go of the past, the fears, the superstitions ect. and can pull the pieces of his or her life back together and carry on and move on, that is the degree to which one will find happiness in life after being a Witness.

  Path
• 

  ozziepost

  What a great thread this is. Thanks you guys for your comments.

  Deacon, your comment about "The WTBTS have assumed that role today. They have a worldwide kingdom, a government and local rulers to implement "legal' and moral judgements upon the subject. They really have assumed the mantel of a "new world order"" reminded me of a talk given in Oz last year by a visiting Zone Overseer who stated that "we are going to rule the world"! Oh, happy day !

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "You can know the law by heart, without knowing the heart of it"
  Philip Yancey, What's So Amazing About Grace?
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  Deacon

  In a way, the attitude displayed by the members of the WTBTS is one of absolute faith in the belief of the approaching kingdom...and that is to be commended.

  The sad thing is that the yardstick measure of not running before Jehovahs Timetable, seems not to apply to the spirit anointed ones interpretations of dates and events. It would be much better to write in publications...This is what we think it might pertain to or mean...but time will tell

  The approach that is taken for the majority of members is..they cannot rule themselves, they need leading and feeding all the time..make them subservient to the absolute principle of leadership under Gods rule..

  it works. 6 million people approx have willingly surrendered to the rulership of imperfect men, and putting their lives in the hands of men who among themselves have divided opinions, but submit to the majority rule because..it doesnt matter what we do now, in the new system all will be put right, all mistakes will be forgiven..

  Sometimes I wonder what the real meaning of the term..the disgusting thing in the Holy place
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  Billygoat

  Deacon what a great thread! I think it great that we can safely ask the hard questions here. But, just so you know, I do still believe in God. I have learned that the God that JW's painted for me was incorrect. I had to re-evaluate what I had been taught and compare it to what the Bible said and what I had experienced in my own life.

  Quoting Path of Horns -

  (quote) "I had to ask myself, "what do we know for sure?" I think when one simply looks at the answer to this, we know very little for sure beyond what we can see around us. It is hard sometimes to let go of what we want to believe.

  Having been out for a little while and having been free to ask the questions, I feel there are no pretty answers. Life is about learning and growing and our relationships with people and the world around us. It is time to live and enjoy life and move on from the past.

  I am very comfortable now not knowing the answers to the "big questions". I'd rather say "i don't know" than to believe something someone has just made up to pacify the people.

  I am also increasingly comfortable letting those who wish to remain in their little make believe worlds do so. Worrying about those left behind, those who refuse to think and choose to remain ignorant only weighs one down. We can lead people to the "water", but it is up to them if they wish to drink it.

  I think to the degree one is able to let go of the past, the fears, the superstitions ect. and can pull the pieces of his or her life back together and carry on and move on, that is the degree to which one will find happiness in life after being a Witness." (/quote)

  Everything you said fit perfectly to how I look at Life and God and unanswered questions. Thank you for verbalizing what I couldn't!

  Billygoat - moving on, trying to find life out of the Tower
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  peaceloveharmony

  Hi deacon great to hear from you. i was wondering how you and npy are doing. i hope all is well. (((deacon & npy)))

  i agree with the others, great thread! i will try to answer some of your questions. you said:

  Most of you, if not all of you no longer believe in God as such anymore.

  Is this a direct result of the dissapointment of your experience with the WTBTS and the natural outcome of escaping a form of emotional repression, or is it just the way it is?

  for me i think it is just the way it is. of course, growing up in a cult might have made me more of a searcher than others. but i've never really felt like i had a close relationship to god. i'd say at about the age of 12-13, i'd lost my closeness with god. and when i was younger, my belief/closeness in god had more to do with the fact that i was young, when you will believe anything. heck, my blanky and my teddybear meant a lot to me too! my non-belief in god has always been there, but it took me a while to realize that I don't need to believe in god to be happy and live a full and wonderful life. i hung onto the thought that there must be a god because i was afraid of going on alone. afraid of trusting myself and my instincts. once i started to trust myself, it sorta all fell into place. but just because this works for me, does not mean it is the way for everyone. i respect everyone's decisions, just please respect mine.

  Is there any vestige of belief left in the Bible, in the prospect of eternal life or in .....well anything bible related?

  no, not for me. although i appreciate some of the ideas presented in the bible, like the golden rule and i like that scripture about love in 1 cor. (?? i think it's in 1 cor.) now i wonder, did i ever?

  Deac, you went on and said

  It takes a whole heap of courage to live a life that has meaning. It takes some inner faith and some internal battles to overcome the sad things that happen. A lot of new posters on this board are feeling empty, frightened, ripped apart, lost and just plain suicidal at times because of the loss of faith internally...the questions rage.. Have I grieved the Holy Spirit? Have I deserted my God? Has he deserted me? Where will I go? What can I believe in? Am I doing wrong by reading this board? Will Jehovah help me if I truly cant follow the WTBTS?

  i agree with you that it does take courage to live a meaningful life. it takes courage to CHANGE and it is HARD work. but i think in the end, you will be a better person for it. the more you question, the more you will learn. newly freed jws have a lot of searching to do. time heals and learning is always a good thing. it's been nine years since i was a jw...nine years of discovering myself, finding out who i really am. i'm still discovering, i don't think that ever ends.

  thanks for this great thread and your kinds words to me i don't know if my words helped but just wanted to put them out there.

  love,
  your adopted daughter
  harmony