Possible way to caclulate Great Tribulation?

by sinis 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • sinis
    sinis

    I was reading through some of the "other" bible texts (apocraphyls (sp?)) and came across an interesting verse regarding the fallen angels:

    ENOCH 10:11 . . . And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves 12 with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and 14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. . . .'

    The flood was appearently in the year 2348 BCE. It looks as if, according to the scripture, that when they saw there sons killed by the flood they were to be bound for Seventy Generations. Other scriptures in the bible refer to this abyss, appearently other demons fear going to it.

    LUKE 8:26 Then they sailed to the country of the Gadarenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27 And when He stepped out on the land, there met Him a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time. And he wore no clothes, nor did he live in a house but in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!" 29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness. 30 Jesus asked him, saying, "What is your name?" And he said, "Legion," because many demons had entered him. 31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the Abyss. 32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them. 33 Then the demons went out of the man and entered the swine, and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the lake and drowned.

    Revelation, speaks of this further by saying:

    REVELATION 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them. 7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8 Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months.

    So it seems the Abyss is opened before Armageddon (Grear Tribulation) with there (demons) activities leading to the final day. If a person knew how long a "generation" was as used in Enoch would it be possible to calculate the "day" when the Abyss is opened in Revelation? I played around with numbers and figure from the flood until now is approximately 4353 years. The bible speaks of a generation as being 70 to 80 years which would put that figure (70 generations * years) anywhere from 4900 - 5600 years from 2348 BCE. However, I am inclined to believe that the generation spoken of in Enoch is different from the one spoken of in Psalms 90:10. If you were to take the time period from the flood until now and divide by 70(generations) you come out to a time span of about 62 years per generation. As I said, I was just playing with numbers but I find the whole idea presented in Enoch and Revelation very interesting.

  • anewme
    anewme

    I am not a math person, but do your calculations mean the the tribulation may be quite far off in the distant future?

    Knowing the time would really impact our thinking and faith without a doubt.

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    "The flood was appearently in the year 2348 BCE"

    Please provide a source or other evidence for this date. Thank you.

  • AllAlongTheWatchtower
    AllAlongTheWatchtower

    I have (more properly, had, since I'm an atheist) my own theory that I came up with a long time ago for the date of Armageddon/Millenium/Tribulation or whatever you want to call it. All through the bible, the numbers 6 and 7 are of great significiance, starting with the creation of the universe and the sabbath. In 6 days, god created the world, and on the 7th he rested. All through the bible, there are passages that say a thousand years is like unto a day, or similar in meaning. After Armageddon, there is to be a thousand year (millenium) paradise.

    Christianity has its root origins in Jewish beliefs and customs. By the Jewish calendar, the current year is 5766. Because of the things I have mentioned above, many people believe that the world will exist for 6,000 years, then Armageddon and the 1,000 years of the millenium. Assuming that the Jewish calendar is most correct, since they are the ones who spawned this whole belief system in the first place, Armageddon will occur in 234 more years. Or by the regular calendar, the year 2239 AD.

    I came up with this thought back in the 80's when I was a kid in the worldwide church of god. They had simliar prophecy/failure problems as the WTS did, but in 1976 I think, instead of 75. With all the rampant speculation going on at the time, everybody was coming up with their favorite pet theory, and this was mine. I could never figure out why more religions didn't latch onto this way of thinking, since so many of them could advance theories based on a straw in the wind, this one at least seemed pretty logical to me. As I grew older and more cynical, I just figured that a date so far into the future wasn't urgent enough for them, to induce membership, good behavior, and large donations.

  • Joel Wideman
    Joel Wideman

    I am of the opinion that attempts to calculate the date - whether the month, year, or even the century - of the end pisses God off.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Here's an interesting thing. Go to Luke 3:23 and count the number of generations, starting with "Jesus". Guess who the 70th generation is? Enoch. So 70 generations from Enoch lead to Jesus. Luke may thus reflect the messianic expectation of the period that eschatological judgment will occur in the generation of Jesus (expressed explicitly in Luke 11:30-33, 21:23, and elsewhere in Matthew 16:28).

    More discussion on this:

    http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messiah_15b.html

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/96889/1.ashx

  • Beta Male
    Beta Male

    Religions are only interested in using eschatological ideas that can be used (exploited) in their time, which is probably why no-one has been interested in your jewish calendar calculations.

    Although I was.

    I promise.

  • sinis
    sinis
    Here's an interesting thing. Go to Luke 3:23 and count the number of generations, starting with "Jesus". Guess who the 70th generation is? Enoch. So 70 generations from Enoch lead to Jesus. Luke may thus reflect the messianic expectation of the period that eschatological judgment will occur in the generation of Jesus (expressed explicitly in Luke 11:30-33, 21:23, and elsewhere in Matthew 16:28).

    Interesting. However, Enoch mentions that the binding would take place AFTER their offspring had been destroyed or during the flood. So that would not put the 70th generation at the time of Jesus but at a date in the future since Noah was the 10th generation (it would be around the 80th generation).

    LUKELUKE'S SOURCES
    77Jesus of Nazareth
    76Joseph
    75Eli
    74Matthat
    73Levi
    72Melki
    71Jannai
    70Joseph
    69Mattathias
    68Amos
    67Nahum
    66Esli
    65Naggai
    64Maath
    63Mattathias
    62Semein
    61Josech
    60Joda
    59Joanan
    58Rhesa
    57ZerubbabelZerubbabel53
    56ShealtielShealtiel52
    55Neri Mattaniah/Zedekiah50
    54Melki Jehoiachin51
    53AddiEliakim/Jehoiakim50
    52KosamJehoahaz50
    51Elmadam Josiah49
    50Er Amon48
    49Jesus Manasseh47
    48Eliezer Hezekiah46
    47Jorim Ahaz45
    46Matthat Jotham44
    45Levi Azariah/Uzziah43
    44Simeon Amaziah42
    43Judah Joash41
    42JosephAhaziah 40
    41Jonan Jehoram39
    40Eliakim Jehosaphat38
    39Melea Asa37
    38Menna Abijah36
    37Mattatha Rehoboam35
    36NathanSalomon34
    35DavidDavid33
    34JesseJesse32
    33ObedObed31
    32BoazBoaz30
    31SalmonSalmon29
    30NahshonNahshon28
    29AmminadabAmminadab27
    28Admin
    27AramAram26
    26HezronHezron25
    25PerezPerez24
    24JudahJudah23
    23JacobJacob22
    22IsaacIsaac21
    21AbrahamAbraham20
    20TerahTerah19
    19NahorNahor17
    18SerugSerug17
    17ReuReu16
    16PelegPeleg15
    15EberEber14
    14ShelahShelah13
    13Kainan
    12ArphaxadArphaxad12
    11ShemShem11
    10NoahNoah10
    9LamechLamech9
    8MethuselahMethuselah8
    7EnochEnoch7
    6JaredJared6
    5MahalalelMahalalel5
    4KenanKenan4
    3EnoshEnosh3
    2SethSeth2
    1AdamAdam1
    GodGod

    As far as the date for the flood I obtained that from the Societys publications, although this link says it was around 2309 BCE (in the ballpark) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark

  • confusedjw
    confusedjw

    Sure it's been done several times.

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