Russell of Annointed, how do you know?

by Woodsman 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Woodsman

  When Russell started the WTS and began promoting his epistimology the teachings were not what they were today. Most noteable was that Christ was present in 1874. Thus he believed he and others were chosen by Christ to be of the Elect Remnant who would serve as part of the 144,000 the witnesses recognize today.

  The problem occurs when the WTS, or Judge Rutherford, changed 1874 to 1914.

  Now Christ did not perform any "inspection" until 1919.

  He did not chose any FDS until 1919.

  Well, Russell was dead in 1919.

  Therefore prior to 1919 Russell was just as any other Christian group was. They were in the running to see if they would be judged worthy of being "good and faithful slaves" (according to WTS teaching) who would be appointed by the Master.

  To hold that the Master was privately working with one man or group before the judging took place would be corrupt. Why wouldn't he have also been working with the other groups. It could not be due to doctrine since according to the WTS many of Russells doctrines are wrong.

  If Russell is included because the Witnesses believe the Lord was in his work then what about those who Russell believed had the Lord in their work. He speaks about the Lords hand being behind the Millerite movement as this movement preceeded his own. Should these also be included in the WTS's line of Annointed. Be careful because 144,000 is filled quickly if you trace the history back too far. Perhaps that is why the WTS makes a break with all others at Russell. But why? He didn't. And if his linear portrayal is inaccurate why is he included in the WTS's current portrayal? The break with all others should logically be at 1919. If you take it back further you have to provide a reason to start at Russell, in spite of the fact that Russell didn't start with himself.
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  skyman

  Good reasoning but the Witnesses will not listen to logic. And as for the 144,000 it is not a literal number only symbolic number.
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  Joel Wideman

  "And as for the 144,000 it is not a literal number only symbolic number."
  When did that happen?
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  kid-A

  Interesting thread. Did Russell state his belief that he personally would be going to heaven at his death? Does anyone have any quotes from him in this regard?
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  blindersoff

  Keep in mind the WTS says the slave was appointed in 33 ce . Russell sort of filled the bill in his time & then in 1919 those who claimed to be his followers were given the added responsibility of ALL the masters belongings.

  B
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  AnnOMaly

  
  Hi Woodsman and welcome.

  You raise very good points. I wonder if some of the statements made in the 1/15/2005 WT ("Foregleams of God's Kingdom Become a Reality") sparked you off on this.

  " 2 Concerning 'the time of the end,' the prophet Daniel wrote: 'Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.' (Daniel 12:4, 10) Spiritual insight is reserved only for those who sincerely 'rove about' in, or diligently study, God's Word, submit to his standards, and strive to do his will. - Matthew 13:11-15; 1 John 5:20.
  
  " 3 As early as the 1870's, before 'the last days' commenced, Jehovah God began to shed more light on 'the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens.' (2 Timothy 3:1-5; Matthew 13:11) At that time a group of Bible Students discerned - contrary to popular opinion - that Christ's return was to be invisible. After being enthroned in heaven, Jesus would return in the sense of focusing his royal attention on the earth. A visible composite sign would alert his disciples that his invisible presence had begun. - Matthew 24:3-14."

  One irritation is that it said, "At that time a group of Bible Students discerned - contrary to popular opinion - that Christ's return was to be invisible." By the time the Bible Students as a group discerned the invisibility of Christ's return, the return had already happened in 1874 - it was retrospective.
  
  But coming to the part that relates to your point: "As early as the 1870's, before 'the last days' commenced, Jehovah God began to shed more light on 'the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens.' " Trouble is, the Bible Students believed they were already in the 'last days' from 1799. That is why they believed the sacred secrets were being revealed to them, which ties in with paragraph 2 and Daniel's prophecy that insight, understanding and true knowledge would be abundant 'in the time of the end.'

  So how can it be said here that Daniel's prophecy applied to Russell and the Bible Students if 'increasing light' has shown JWs that the 'time of the end' didn't start before 1914? If it is so that the 'time of the end' only began in 1914, Russell could not have been granted the 'true knowledge' or special 'insight' or 'understanding' that Daniel 12 speaks of. As you say, "why is he included in the WTS's current portrayal?"
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  Woodsman

  Thanks all,

  I haven't read that 2005 Wt although I have read similiar statements and they did lead me to question the whole inclusion of the Bible students activities in the current process though they occurred before the JWs say the last days began. I have also found fault with the inferences that the 19th century Bible students pointed toward 1914 for Christ's return when they belived he had returned in 1874. Its a meshing of two different doctrines. The modern day WTS is trying to make it seem as though the 19th century WTS believed pretty much the same thing as what is taught today. This simply is not the case.

  If you doubt this ask any JW who does not read "apostate" material what year the early Bible Students predicted Christ's invisible presence would begin and they will say 1914. It is the "lying apostates" who will tell the truth about 1874 while the WTS will try to keep it hidden.

  Ann is right about 1799. There was also thought to be a 40 year period of a time of trouble from 1874, Christ's return, and 1914, Armageddon. All was wrong and does not resemble modern teaching at all.
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  VM44

  The Watchtower has for over 100 years said that the scripture in Daniel about "roving about" or "roving to and fro" means roving about, or studying, the Scriptures.

  Is that really what Daniel meant when he wrote "roving"?

  and as far as gem from The Watchtower,

  Bible Students discerned - contrary to popular opinion - that Christ's return was to be invisible.

  yes, contrary to popular opinion, and also to what the Bible says!

  Matthew 24:26,27 Therefore if they say to you, «Look, He is in the desert!» do not go out; or «Look, He is in the inner rooms!» do not believe it.For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

  Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, and they also who pierced Him.

  Christ's return will be a very visible event to all! Not just reserved for those with "eyes of understanding"

  The reason for the "invisible" return of Christ doctrine is that nothing happened in 1874, so rather than questioning the adventist calculations, Russell did something elese....He kept the calculations, but said that Christ HAD returned, but it was invisible!

  Russell was a strange man!

  --VM44 (of the "invisible" man class)
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  TheListener

  I like this thread. I've been doing some Russell research lately.

  I have seen quotes about from Russell about expecting the "change" , talking about changing to a spirit creature in heaven in 1881.

  This is the breakdown I've got:

  1799 - time of the end began (1914 now)

  1844 - spiritual awakening, interest in God's kingdom (1870 interest starts with Russell now- main thread topic)

  1874 - Jesus presence began (1914 now)

  1878 - Jesus enthroned as king (1914 now)

  1881 - resurection of dead faithful ones to heaven; changing to spirits of little flock (began in 1914 now)

  1914 - literal end of system. Millions of nominal church members die. Christ along with little flock start 1,000 year reign and help those on earth to perfection or death. (now a symbolic end of the system with the 1,000 year reign beginning "around the corner")

  After things weren't happening the way the bible students planned they began to change many things. Like 1918, 1925 and so on. I've been reading tons of the old WT and books and sermons. This is the best that I could come up with as an early bible student understanding of dates. If anyone has any corrections let me know. I do have quotes for the above dates, but I could have misunderstood the application and am open to correction.
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  AnnOMaly

  Yes, Russell had some strange ideas and, to me, he definitely had Gnostic tendencies. Yet Russell's model was elegant because of the parallels he saw in Scripture! This is what I've got:

  1844 - the bridegroom was to make an appearance but he 'tarried' - this is parallel to Christ's birth on earth.

  1874 - 30 years later, he appeared/was present as the God's Anointed (at his baptism).

  1878 - 3.5 years later, enthroned as heavenly King. On earth he was hailed as King when riding into Jerusalem. Also the year when he was resurrected, so all members of 'the Christ,' his body, who have died, began to be resurrected from 1878.

  1881 - 3.5 years later. Just as there was special favor granted the Jews for that period of time before Samaritans and Gentiles were brought in, there was special favor granted the 'nominal church' or nominal 'spiritual Israel.' It was also the time when (as TheListener said) the living saints would be translated to heaven.

  1914 - 40 years after 1874. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish system was approximately 40 years after Jesus' anointing - a generation. The same with the end of the global system in 1914.

  Beautiful, huh? And unfortunately, beautifully wrong.