Posts by ellderwho

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

I question your reasonings on several points. I dont believe you can take the Bible in whole. You will have to either add to it in some form or wind up emblelishing scripture to shore up your doctrine.

This has been my point all along. You clearly stated in one of your first posts'... "Baptism is a must"

I refute that claim with the thief on the cross. He gets a promise before he dies. Hence no baptism.

Your only defense is this notion of a "vicarious action" that implys that a human can seal ones fate by his or her actions in behalf of another while here on earth. Which totally erodes Jesus words where he states emphatically "I am the way the truth the life"

Mt. 28:19 Jesus tells the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy spirit, and no where does Jesus indicate that if this isnt done, do it by proxy after they die.

Dan, Ive asked you serval times to fortify this teaching of your church and other examples of vicarious actions you claim that are in the Bible, this Bible word of God you claim to enjoy reading. If you love to read about the Jewish traditions and early Christian "ways" why cant you produce these other vicarious actions you speak of?

Your the one who threw out the challenge that "I will be seriously outmatched" by your Bible wit.

If God wanted us to "baptize the dead" he would convey this through his word.

If God wanted us in the flesh to "ordain the dead" he would have taught us how.

E.

17

Joan Cetnar from PFO Ministries

by ellderwho in

this past weekend my wife and i had the privilege of having joan cetnar stay in our home for the weekend to attend a counter-cult seminar at deputydogs(forum poster)church.. she is a forth generation witness, who lived a few miles from bethel on her familys farm.

she told stories of her youth, like when the brass from the towers would come to her familys farm for a little r & r. these are the likes of covington, knorr to name a few.

i sat there in amazment listening to her tell these stories with such insight on the upper echelon of the org.

ellderwho

Thats hillarious,

Its sounds like something I'd say. Seriously I didnt though. Looking foward to meeting you. I invited Randy W. I asked Joan if he's ever been, she said he came a few years back.

At the conference I was with Wilbur lingle and his wife ( I'm in a counter cult ministry with them).

E.

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

ellderwho

Dan,

You need only one scripture or verse to corroborate truth.

Your not "tied down to scripture" like the rest of us.

You dont need anything to be in the Bible.

But you enjoy studying the Bible.

Can you clarify this knid of reasoning?

E

43

Few Black/African people on this board

by Joker10 in

jw
friends

a while ago it was asked what your ethnic background was and only 2 said they were some percent black.

why do you think few black people actively speak out against wt?

few african-americans can be seen protesting at assemblies.

ellderwho

I attended an all black congregation, our family and two other white familys. Really didnt see any racism towards myself, there very well could have been but I never noticed any either race. Then again checkin out some sisters, and flirting alot with the sisters in the cong. knowing it was very "taboo" kinda made it very interesting

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

ellderwho

Dan says,

And if you would like to see just how seriously I take my Bible you are going to be seriously outmatched.

And now you state;

we don't need anything to be in the Bible.

Why would you state that you take the Bible serious if you dont need it?

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

ellderwho

Dan,

Elderwho, if one scripture from the Bible is not enough to corroborate truth then you're going to have to throw out a lot of mainstream Christian ideas

If I try to illustrate one verse on a stand alone premise as you assert, to "corroborate" truth is a weak format. But this is what you do to defend your doctrine.Let alone develope it.

Look at your words "if one scripture"...." is not enough" No Dan, one scripture is not enough. You should be the one subscribing to this. Didnt you state "Im not tied down to the Bible like ya'll" When in fact, you have "tied yourself down" with this verse.

As the Jws do in Col. 1:15 to infer this means in a literal sense Jesus is firstborn. With no other scripture to corroborate this thought. Their are many other examples.

This is exactly what you do with scripture ie. Baptism for the dead.

Ask yourself. Is this practice taught in scripture? The answer is obvious.

Another words you cannot develope this teaching from scripture.

E

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

ellderwho

Basically a summation of your reasoning,

You hit and run, No biblical challenges as you threaten. Your still empty handed with vicarious baptism.

58

The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus Christ

by hooberus in

the church has traditionally held to the resurrection of the flesh of jesus christ:.

ignatius (who according to ancient sources was a disciple of the apostle john).

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/anf-01/anf01-21.htm .

ellderwho

An exalted man was once a man, now he's not.

Dan I'm not sure you realize where you posting. Most of us were in a cult. Thats C-U-L-T.

1. Cults reject all paradoxes of scriptures.

2. Cults reject anything they cannot explain.

3. Cults use the Bible-----Plus!

4. Cults recongnize a man of a group as having absolute authority.

5. Cults deny salvation by faith alone.

6. Cult leaders do not want their followers to think for themselves.

7. Cults make it difficult to leave.

Dan your in a CULT, OK I said it.

BTW wheres all the outmatching Bible wit you spoke of?

17

Joan Cetnar from PFO Ministries

by ellderwho in

this past weekend my wife and i had the privilege of having joan cetnar stay in our home for the weekend to attend a counter-cult seminar at deputydogs(forum poster)church.. she is a forth generation witness, who lived a few miles from bethel on her familys farm.

she told stories of her youth, like when the brass from the towers would come to her familys farm for a little r & r. these are the likes of covington, knorr to name a few.

i sat there in amazment listening to her tell these stories with such insight on the upper echelon of the org.

ellderwho

Mouthy,

As a matter of fact Joan recieved the fake burns about 10 miles west from where I live.

BTW I met you at the conference. I'll be giving my testimony with the help of my wife in OCT.

E.

17

Joan Cetnar from PFO Ministries

by ellderwho in

this past weekend my wife and i had the privilege of having joan cetnar stay in our home for the weekend to attend a counter-cult seminar at deputydogs(forum poster)church.. she is a forth generation witness, who lived a few miles from bethel on her familys farm.

she told stories of her youth, like when the brass from the towers would come to her familys farm for a little r & r. these are the likes of covington, knorr to name a few.

i sat there in amazment listening to her tell these stories with such insight on the upper echelon of the org.

ellderwho

Joan Cetnar is a giant in apostate history, briefly her husband Bill was responsible for the southeastern part of the US. she said the US was divided into 3 parts and that was his. Anyway Bill encountered Walter Martin in the lobby of Brooklyn Headquarters and that was the beginning of the end.

After Bills DF they moved to CA. And wound up in a church where Walter Martin was giving a sermon. Walter notices Bill in the audiance and they became good friends. Bill and Joan struggled with the blood issue mostly.

She told me first hand accounts of the trial in Scottland.(Franz)

The sad part is she is her whole family is still in, her mom didnt talk to her for 40 some years and died recently. This is the site http://www.pfo.org/

I dont think her story is there.

This is the link where Walter, Bill and Joan do a skit on the doorstep. Good stuff.

http://www.waltermartin.com/realaudio.html

Ellderwho