Posts by ellderwho

763

Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?

by Little Bo Peep in

hello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.

i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.

i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.

ellderwho

WT is a 'birds eye view' of history and thus avoids many difficult problems.

Hmm?

624BC-----------------------------------------539BC

Okay, show me the 'birds eye view' of your kings-list?

30

Neo-Babylonian Chronology and the Egibi Business House

by VM44 in

i am somewhat shocked right now, although i know i probably should not be, i will explain in this post later.. .

all this information is contained in carl olof jonsson's excellent book, the gentile times reconsidered, 4th edition, pages 122-125.. .

it turns out that throughout the neo-babylonian time frame, a business firm named the sons of egibi conducted business, and left some three or four thousand record tables contained in earthen jars covered with bitumen.. .

ellderwho

VM,

I cant get enough of GTR, because it stabs wt chronology right in the eye.

10

Just got back from the Kingdom Hall.....

by jimbob in

jw
friends

the wife and i just got back from the kingdom hall this afternoon.

some of you may recall that said we would be going back today for a memorial of a close friend of the family.

so i thought i would share the experience.. i have to start out by saying just getting ready to go was interesting.

ellderwho

My jw grandmother 91 yo passed in aug 04 the funeral was at a Funeral parlor. It was errie to hear that she had hoped for "paradise" after she will awaken from her death sleep. And my family and I knowing that its all a lie. Very sad.

Doc, whats up? It was good to see you at Blue mountain last Oct.

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

ellderwho

FD:Yes, to everyone except you.

Either you havent read the definitions or you do not understand what the individual arrives at by the given definitions.

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

ellderwho

HS,

EW:Hillary, you state, your not convinced I can grasp what logic is. Do the above posters seem to have a grasp and be in agreement?

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

ellderwho

If you've asked me any other questions on this thread, sorry, but I missed them. I only popped in 'cause I saw LT posted and I wanted to read it.

LOL Ive popped in other threads to see what LT had to say. To be honest he hasnt said much here, to align himself with a brotha.

edited to add: Im color blind, no just kidding.

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

ellderwho

LT: Logic and science don't answer "why"s, they only answer "how"s

The real crux of the issue is what is the final reference-point required to make the "facts" and "laws" intelligble?

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

ellderwho

As all your conclusions to date regarding the process of logic orient around God being the finality of truth and logic, then there must be a process of logic to show this.

I come to these conclusions by default. Atheism and or Naturalism, or evolution offer no viable answer for the order and sense that logic demands.

If my position is so far from being logical, why hasnt the atheist stepped up to help me make sense of why the order of logic is in his/her world, and why its reliable and it works?

Zen states of logic : which have an apparent consistancy, stability, and collective agreement... it is neither universal nor necessarily representative of anything more than experiences within ones own mind.

What does collective agreement have to do with a logical outcome? In the US, would not the same logical outcome occur in China. Further what is stable or consistent about a "collective agreement"?

Alan F. states logic comes from our brain, (which makes it subjective) with no contruct of an agument presented other than evolution. But how could logical precepts be derived from an evolving world that I assume will still evolve?

Funkyderek states, that logic is universal and a "truism" to a certain extent, and that Im confused, and refuses to answer me based on my allegded stupity, and yet he cannot disagree with things he does not understand, although he wants to agree to a certain extent while not really wanting to commit to an arguement.

Liberty II says: Logic has evolved along with human intellegence. There must be a consistant base for thought processes to compare facts and observations against, otherwise our thoughts become muddled nonsense.

Here again logic is subjected to human knowledge, while stated there must be a base for comparing things, that basis, in the end is shaky due to its origins. (human knowledge) or subjectivity.

Almost atheist states: I think it order to have a logical debate you have to have some agreed upon "truths".

Is a "truth" not a truth until its agreed upon? Is this, then what logic becomes, an agreed upon truth. Subjected to a vote?

Hillary, you state, your not convinced I can grasp what logic is. Do the above posters seem to have a grasp and be in agreement?

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

ellderwho

:ellderwho not play with full deck!

Hey, stop wasting your bandwidth

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

ellderwho

We both agree that logic is universal. I attribute logic to Gods existence.( I realize this doesnt fly with you)

Again, I know that. But beyond repeatedly stating it, you've done nothing to support that claim.

Fine, forget about my claim, whats yours?

What do you attribute logic to? In your view what is logic derived from?
If you understood what logic is, you'd realise how pointless that question is. You could claim ignorance at the start of this discussion. You no longer have such an excuse.

Your just evading the question.

Tell me how the above statement broke down. You state "I dont make sense", but you dont totally "disagree"
I can't disagree with something that I don't understand. I'm pretty sure I'd disagree with it if I understood it, if that helps.

No it doesnt help, futher you predispose yourself to disagree, sounds like a closed mind to me.

HS, Ive never stated once that logic is what led me to have faith in a creator. Your putting words in my mouth.