Posts by heavensgate11

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

heavensgate11

DOT

I wasn’t your teacher, to teach you the obvious, like the JWN Community does. I do not mix facts with fiction. Just as my comments have being misunderstood by the misguided, so to will your eyes be opened as EVE.

To learn is to understand the context and reasoning. Your blatant disregard for quest of knowledge is there for superficial. Welcome to the realm of hypocrisy and service to another cult. My insults have been none. The aggressors here have been the JWN Community.

Why don't people understand? It is not because the Bible is so unclear. Jesus expected people to understand His teaching, and Paul said: "...do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is" (Ephesians 5:17; see also 2 Timothy 3:16,17).

But often people do not understand the Bible simply because they do not like what it says. "Their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their heart and turn, so that I should heal them" (Matthew 13:15). When the Bible does not say what some folks want to hear, they just conclude it is all too confusing and you cannot really understand it anyway!

People who want to please God must "search the Scriptures daily" with an open mind, like the honest Bereans in Acts 17:11.

To please God, we must know the truth, and that truth is found in God's word.

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

heavensgate11

DOT

let me start off by saying, I'm not hear to defend or deny other than the truth. Judgment belongs to GOD

I wasn’t lumping you with JWN Community. I’m simply stating if you don’t follow their doctrine or interpretation or there off, they will get upset and start to insult you. As you can see by DD’s comments I’m ignorant and should leave the Community and this is by someone that is an intellect and professes not to advocate hate. As I proved to another member, The Watchtower publication can be rewritten to be misleading, and people accept it. If you have the Awake you will see the distinction. There is no overlapping when you see the truth behind the article.

If you’re a true JW, this site is not for you. Research the internet.

The article you refer to has been answered in this Community many times.

C.T. Russell and the Bible Students interpreted the first part of this passage to mean that all people born before 1914 would not have the privilege to see Gods glory in the second coming of Christ. This is evident in the quote provided: “"My advice is, then, give your children an education up to public school limit, not even attempting to take them through high school, for they get plenty of Higher Criticism [sic] in the high schools, and it will not be long before they have it in the common schools also." What Pastor Russell Said (Leslie W. Jones Chicago 1917) pp.57-58” referring to Matthew 24:34

The second part on that publication also talked about higher education. This was misinterpreted by unscrupulous people that wanted to defend their ideological placement on higher education. People back then could find a job without the need of higher education. The necessity of higher education even today has limitations and no guarantees. Some people today blame the WTS for not having a good retirement plan because they only see the materialism in today’s society. But whatever the case may be, it should be up to the younger generation to choose their own value.

Matthew 24:34

English Standard Version (ESV)

34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

*** Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 ***
If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold:’ this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

heavensgate11

Punkofnice, good one!!!!!!!!!

DOT

Were you a witness in 1945? Would you understand the purpose of the WT writing this article? Just as the JWN community makes assertions, they make those assertions without the true nature and purpose of the time they profess to ridicule when back lashing ideologies. The same assertion of ideologies used by mortal men when it comes to history, archeology, and Science. The premise of what can be seen without being seen. The same way you looked at this article face value without proper context. Continue learning, and you will find out with this article and time placement equal to people believing that Jesus was God, and was far more Superior to worship than Jehovah the father. Once again, since Jesus became the vessel or sacrifice, he has every right to be above all, and that included heavenly beings or celestial beings.

Since you have been welcomed by the JWN Community, you will soon see their version of NEW LIGHT, and accept their doctrine to be the only infallible truth.

Jesus, to the throne in 1914, preparatory to the beginning

of the New World of righteousness. Quoting the

words above, the apostle Paul says, at Hebrews 1: G:

"And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the

world he saith, And let all the ange-/'s ot God u'orship

him." (A.B.V.) "But of the time when he is to bring

his firstborn Son back to the world he says. 'And let

all God's angels bow before him."-Amer. Trans.

30 \Vhen God's only begotten, firstborn Son was

made a man on earth, Jehovah God saw good to

"make him but little less than messengers divine", or

less than godly angels, elohim. (Ps. 8: 5, Roth. Pss.)

Now, at Christ's corning to reign as king in Jehovah's

capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new

world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the

godly angels or messengers and accordingly COlli·

mands them to worship him. This does not mean that

Christ Jesus is .Jehovah, a "Jehovah-Chrisf', as

certain religionists say; but it simply fulfills what

.r esus said on earth: "The Father judgeth no man,

but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that

all men should honour the Son, even as they honour

the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honouretll

not the Father which hath sent him." (John 5: 22,23)

Since .Jehovah God now reigns as King by mean::; of

his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would

worship Him must also worship and bow down to

Jehovah's Chief One in that capital organization.

namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of

The Theocracy. The holy angels gladly oheyed the

divine command and they proved their worsllip of

Jehovah's new King and their subjection to him by

joining in his "war in heaven" against Satan and his

wirked angels. Thereafter, when Christ .Jesus came

to the temple of God in 1918, to begin judgment at

the house of God, many of such angels came ulon~

as his loyal, obedient servants. (Rev. 12: 7-12; ~Iatt.

25: 31; Isa. 6: 1-8; Matt. 24: 31,32) At Armageddon

they will fight under him to the utter destructIOn of

Satan's entire organization.

PSYCHOLOGY vs. THE BIBLE *Proverbs 21:30, “There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.”* SIGMUND FREUD

Man: He is not responsible for his actions. He is a victim of other people in society. He battles the past and hurtful experiences in childhood. He is sick.	Man: He is responsible for his sin. Yet, man wants to shift the blame to God, others, or Satan as Adam and Eve did. See: Genesis 3:12-13, Ezekiel 18:20, Galatians 6:5, Proverbs 9:12. BIBLE
Source of his problem: He struggles between his normal desires (id) and his conscience (superego), which his overly strict (mother/church) has created. He represses this deep inner struggle over what he feels and what society says is right. This man is poorly socialized.	Source of his problem: Man is a sinner by nature and seeks to live selfishly to fulfill the lusts of his flesh and mind. Man is dead spiritually. See: Romans 5:12, Ephesians 2:1-3. BIBLE
Treatment: He must be taken back into his past to relive it through hypnosis, dream analysis and free association. This will allow the counselor to restructure the counselee's value system and relieve his conscience. He is now re-socialized.	Treatment: Man only needs to be saved to experience this transforming power of God. This redemption is God's treatment for the root problems of man. See: Titus 2:11-3:5. Man can't change his past. He must stop looking back, and re-focus his attention on the present. Forgive and reconcile with others today. BIBLE

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

heavensgate11

1:17 As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.

1:20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm.

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

heavensgate11

OUTLAW

How, by relying on your own deceit. You can’t even acknowledge how wrong you were in a different topic of conversation we had. Wisdom of correction only allows for those that have a clear understanding. Thus far ignorance has proven superior.

DOT

Please don’t mistake my empathy with agreeing with you. Your confusion over exceeds any true logic. When Jesus said follow me. He was not exerting authority over himself. He is the vessel that used for salvation. This vessel justifies him to reign over all of us, not as God but as King. Your understanding about dual GOD has never been mentioned in any sensible way. Good Luck with your endeavor.

For the JWN Community. When you’re ready to remove your blinds, you will understand How GOD corrected his people in the past, and has never left the ideal even today. That’s been the purpose of the Old Testament to understand all a long.

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

heavensgate11

Defender of the Truth

This world is made of Conjecture, theory, and hypothesis when it comes to the unknown past. You will never win a debate here in the JWN community. The perception is always to backlash the Truth no matter how painful it might be to hear. Even when the JWN community member is clearly wrong like Outlaw his people will turn around in a split second and condemn the other as being deceptive. Even the soft hearted will come back with an extreme answer. Concentrate only on real issues that might interest you. Consider this thought: There is a big difference between a Levite and a Priest, just as there is a big difference between and ISRAEL of Old with Jewish Israel of today, but people still thinks of them the same. The JWN community is not really looking for truthful answer they just want to replace wisdom with hate. So don’t be discouraged and continue your good works. A Lutheran Christian once advised me that it world be impossible for that person to ever consider being Catholic. My reply was, where do you think the Lutherans come from. The separation of movements is not acknowledged here unfortunately. The JWN community has a strong pledge to use Guilt by Association very profoundly, but only to the JW class. They don’t care about what else evolves around them as long as the community can take cheap shot at the WTS that’s all that matters. So to continue here you must adhere to the masters and accept their truth.

As stated to DD earlier, there are no clear answers unless you profess to be Christ. Wisdom is a virtue not as sin. Compassion would probably go further than hate. Those of you that profess to acknowledge God within your religion would know the reasoning.

Now you can ridicule my post all you want.

39

An important question for active JW's

by Honesty in

jw
friends

if you and a fellow jehovah's witness went to a house where the homeowner brought up a watchtower doctrine which you secretly disagree with, would you defend it or tell them what it is you really believe?.

either way you are at a loss.. defending something you disagree with is living a lie and telling a lie.

not defending it and telling the home owner what you really believe makes you an apostate by watchtower society standards.

heavensgate11

The mischaracterization or character assassination came from you outlaw not me.

All that you just mentioned above pertains to you not me.

39

An important question for active JW's

by Honesty in

jw
friends

if you and a fellow jehovah's witness went to a house where the homeowner brought up a watchtower doctrine which you secretly disagree with, would you defend it or tell them what it is you really believe?.

either way you are at a loss.. defending something you disagree with is living a lie and telling a lie.

not defending it and telling the home owner what you really believe makes you an apostate by watchtower society standards.

heavensgate11

Theocratic warfare and deception?

39

An important question for active JW's

by Honesty in

jw
friends

if you and a fellow jehovah's witness went to a house where the homeowner brought up a watchtower doctrine which you secretly disagree with, would you defend it or tell them what it is you really believe?.

either way you are at a loss.. defending something you disagree with is living a lie and telling a lie.

not defending it and telling the home owner what you really believe makes you an apostate by watchtower society standards.

heavensgate11

Being lead astray.

Consider the caption below when researching the past. Keep in mind that not all information is available on the internet. The obvious is never what it seems.

There is the IBSA that supported Rutherford for sometime, but then most of the ISBA community severed their relationship with him. Ironically the ISBA disowns any affiliation with JW’s of today.

“The picture is clear. The historical data reveals beyond a doubt that the Bible Students founded by

Pastor Russell and Jehovah’s Witnesses founded by Judge Rutherford are two separate movements”.

There is a big difference between the IBSA of Rutherford, and the JW’s of today. However the JWN community promotes guilt by association or affiliation.

Below is a sample of a protest against JW’s that was lunched back on the 60’s. The caption emplys JW’s are deceptive. However if you read the article by the Watchtower they chose to mislead the public for whatever reason to promote this sensationalist advertisement, you will see the lie was with the author not the Watchtower.

Here you can see the difference how quickly the public can be deceived by the Watchtowers own publications. Here the difference between being obligated to tell the entire truth or reframe from saying something that would be hurtful to someone or it would be painful for someone to hear.

Theocratic warfare and deception?

Incorrect

JW Public Relations: JR Brown is he authorized to lie to the press? Yes!
“He is in theocratic warfare…we must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive” Watchtower 1960 June 1 page 351

Correct

JW Public Relations: JR Brown, is he authorized to lie to the press? No! “We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. But we may not tell a falsehood. ... He is in theocratic warfare ... he must utter the truth.” Watchtower 1960 June 1 pages 351-2

Questions From Readers

● From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian’s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:

God’s Word commands: “Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.” (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. But we may not tell a falsehood.

Example: Your friend’s mother died in a horrible car crash. You were there when it happened. You witnessed the grousim outcome. You go to notify your friend. Do you explain to your friend that their mother just passed away in a car accident and her head and guts were all over the windshield, or do you simply say, your mother was in a terrible car crash and she passed away. Empathy suggests the latter.

Then your decrement is needed within the JWN community. It’s not always just back and white.

10

False premise/ self-contradiction / intellectual dishonesty / Willful stupidity = Watch Tower anointing

by Terry in

we've all heard the true story.. william miller, a baptist lay preacher and war hero, carefully worked out the 2nd coming of jesus using the bible and chronology.. he was invited to speak and explain his warnings and proof in many churches.

tens of thousands heard and believed and waited.. nothing happened.

the great big nothing was called "the great disappointment.".

heavensgate11

George Storrs was publisher of the magazine Bible Examiner, in Brooklyn, New York. Storrs, who was born on December 13, 1796, was initially stimulated to examine what the Bible says about the condition of the dead as a result of reading something published (though at the time anonymously) by a careful student of the Bible, Henry Grew, of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Storrs became a zealous advocate of what was called conditional immortality—the teaching that the soul is mortal and that immortality is a gift to be attained by faithful Christians.

He also reasoned that since the wicked do not have immortality, there is no eternal torment. Storrs traveled extensively, lecturing on the subject of no immortality for the wicked. Among his published works was the Six Sermons, which eventually attained a distribution of 200,000 copies. Without a doubt, Storrs’ strong Bible-based views on the mortality of the soul as well as the atonement and restitution (restoration of what was lost due to Adamic sin; Acts 3:21) had a strong, positive influence on young Charles T. Russell.

While, as the reader will have observed, we disagree with Mr. Miller’s interpretations and deductions, on almost every point—viewing the object, as well as the manner and the time, of our Lord’s coming, in a very different light, C.T. Russell

Anxious to learn, from any quarter, whatever God had to teach, I at once wrote to Mr. Barbour, informing him of my harmony on other points and desiring to know particularly why, and upon what Scriptural evidences, he held that Christ's presence and the harvesting of the Gospel age dated from the autumn of 1874. The answer showed that my surmise had been correct, viz.: that the time arguments, chronology, etc., were the same as used by Second Adventists in 1873, and explained howMr. Barbour and Mr. J. H. Paton, of Michigan, a co-worker with him, had been regular Second Adventists up to thattime; and that when the date 1874 had passed without the world being burned, and without their seeing Christ in the flesh, they were for a time dumb-founded.

Expecting the Lord Jesus to come in 1878 to catch them up miraculously to be with him in heaven, some who had beenSecond Adventists (including Barbour)were disappointed when that miracle did not occur

In 1878 Russell had a major disagreement with one of his collaborators, who had rejected the teaching that Christ’s death could be atonement for sinners. In his rebuttal Russell wrote: “Christ accomplished various good things for us in his death and resurrection. He was our substitute in death; he died the just for the unjust—all were unjust. Jesus Christ by the grace of God tasted death for every man. . . . He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” He continued: “To redeem is to buy back. What did Christ buy back for all men? Life. We lost it by the disobedience of the first Adam. The second Adam [Christ] bought it back with his own life.”—Mark 10:45; Romans 5:7, 8; 1 John 2:2; 4:9, 10.
Paton did write the article, and it was published in the December issue. After repeated unsuccessful efforts to reason on the matter with Barbour from the Scriptures, Russell broke off association with him and withdrew support from his magazine. In July 1879, Russell began to publish a new magazine—Zion’s Watch Tower

Always a staunch advocate of the ransom doctrine, Russell severed all ties with this former collaborator. In July 1879, Russell started to publish Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence, known worldwide today as The Watchtower—Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom.