Bonnie_Clyde

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Posts by Bonnie_Clyde

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  21

  60th Anniversary today - I was baptized 9-01-56

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  60th anniversary – i was baptized 9-1-56 .

  my parents weren’t witnesses at the time, but my witness uncle studied with my brother and i. i think the only reason my parents let him was because my brother was having mental issues and were hoping it would help him.

  my father surprised me a few years later, started studying and was baptized in 1961, later appointed an elder.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Thank you so much for all your comments. I remember my baptism day vividly. Not sure why my parents weren't there. As I mentioned, I was baptized in a lake. The high school where we had the circuit assembly didn't have a pool, so we were shuttled to the lake.

  Toes Up: Yes, I still miss my daughter after all these years. But she is happy with her new family (she was re-married about the time of my mother's death), and her husband's family are all fanatical witnesses. Also she is about the same age as one of my cousin's children. My cousin's husband is a super-duper elder and all of his children are either elders or married to elders...even many in their congregation can't stand them. But my daughter is good friends with most of them.

  Raven: Thanks for your encouragement. Seems like leaving the borg was harder on me than my sons. They were convinced once I showed them the information about the WT's involvement with the UN. My only concern was my one daughter-in-law as she has a lot of witness relatives. But she returned from a district assembly (can't remember the year) and showed me her notes that the speaker said that the organization was more important than family. She said, "I don't think so." For some reason her relatives are not shunning her, not even her father and mother who are quite active. She just doesn't discuss anything with anybody.

  Desirous of Change: Even after I began investigating, I didn't stop right away. It was very slowly and I attributed it to all the time I was spending helping my parents. Although suspicious my daughter wasn't sure until one day after she and her husband returned from a circuit assembly. My father was an invalid by that time and I felt I had to stay home and take care of him rather than hiring somebody. You could read my story about that on this link:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/74189/selling-homes-property-pre-1975

  Great Teacher: Regarding my comment that hardly anyone was coming to visit, my father and I both looked out the window one day and saw a carload of witnesses visiting the homes of his neighbors next door and across the street. But they couldn't find their way over to his house to visit my parents...probably because they couldn't count their time?

  Sanchy: Clyde and I found out that we needed to find other interests. We joined our local Moose chapter and got involved in several other activities. We also try to socialize with many of our neighbors and looked up and visit with some non-witness cousins that we used to ignore. Also I continue to work part-time...I'm in sales and actually enjoy what I'm doing.

  Fat Freek: Interesting story about Ed Dunlap. It makes me sick the way he was treated. We should have gotten out when you did. I was 14 years old when I was baptized and thought I had a very intelligent decision as I was securing my reward to live forever. Also I was not dedicating my life to an organization, it was to Jehovah and his son, Jesus Christ. Anyway, I need to figure out how to read your private message. So you have a 60th anniversary coming up too!

  Suavojr: The hardest part of the shunning was not only my daughter, but my father turning against me after all the years of care that I gave him and my mother. I know my daughter would accept me back if I would just "return to Jehovah." I think that's a form of blackmail, don't you?

  Millie210 and All or Nothing and Listener: Thanks for your posts and encouragement. I admit that sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night wondering how I could have gotten so involved. I still miss some of my old friends, but like I told Clyde, they haven't changed, it's me that has changed, and I just don't want to be around them any more.

  Pete Zahut: You're right I felt the same way when I started reading Crisis of Conscience. I remembered so many things that he mentioned. Example: I read a news story in the Awake! that Mexico were now allowed witnesses to go from door to door and use the Bible. Even at the time, I asked myself why didn't we hear about this before? Why didn’t we send out letters of protest like we did when there was persecution in Malawi? Every paragraph I knew Ray was telling the absolute truth.

  But I will add, I didn’t want Clyde to know I was reading the book. Not for the usual reason. I was afraid, he would start talking and get himself (and maybe me) disfellowshipped like the couple I read about in our local newspaper whose children started shunning them. But one day he found the book, and he was OK. He only said it confirmed what he already believed.

  Stuck in the Middle: You’re right. We didn't have to answer any questions prior to baptism. Yes the 50's was a great time for witness teenagers. Lots of parties, no emphasis on chaperones, but we behaved ourselves...mostly. I didn't know of anyone who committed "fornication." But back then fornication only referred to having intercourse with someone to whom you weren't married, now it can mean almost any kind of touching. I was also at the 1958 International assembly, all eight days. Don't know how the older ones stood it. I went to Milwaukee in 1963, 7 or 8 days. I assume you went to prison because of the Alternate Service stance that they took back then? That still infuriates me. Glad you're doing OK now.

  Hope I didn’t miss anybody

  Here’s another link you can check about a loaded question my daughter asked me.

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/139477/do-you-consider-yourself-one-jehovahs-witnesses

  
  
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  21

  60th Anniversary today - I was baptized 9-01-56

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  60th anniversary – i was baptized 9-1-56 .

  my parents weren’t witnesses at the time, but my witness uncle studied with my brother and i. i think the only reason my parents let him was because my brother was having mental issues and were hoping it would help him.

  my father surprised me a few years later, started studying and was baptized in 1961, later appointed an elder.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  60th Anniversary – I was baptized 9-1-56

  My parents weren’t witnesses at the time, but my witness uncle studied with my brother and I. I think the only reason my parents let him was because my brother was having mental issues and were hoping it would help him. My father surprised me a few years later, started studying and was baptized in 1961, later appointed an elder. He told me it was because of my good example. My mother dragged her feet for quite awhile but was finally baptized in 1967. However, she never was fully engaged as she only went in service by tagging along with my father, and she refused to give talks in the ministry school .

  I was fairly popular and remember being invited to teenage parties all over the circuit, there seemed to be plenty of witness brothers available), and that’s how I met Clyde. I wanted someone who was very theocratic, and at age 22 he had just been appointed to “Assistant Congregation Servant” (a title they gave the person second in command in the congregation), so I felt he met that requirement. However, he was a little different than a lot of guys, he had a tendency to think “outside the box”…maybe that’s why I found him so attractive….plus he was good looking.

  During all this time I pioneered like a good little witness girl, but had to stop when I got pregnant with my first child. Back then, pioneers had to report directly to the Society, so I wrote a letter explaining why I wasn’t able to get my 100 hours per month in for 3 months in a row…not only my pregnancy, but we only had one car and Clyde needed it for his work, and I couldn’t always get rides from the other publishers.

  I still remember the shock when I went to the meeting, and a letter was read from the Society that I had been removed from the pioneer ranks. Nobody notified me ahead of time, and I never got any thanks from the Society or anybody for the 2-1/2 years I gave to Jehovah (actually the Organization). I remember a special pioneer sister visiting our congregation that night came up to me afterwards to tell about a young couple in their congregation who had a new baby and both were still pioneering…talk about guilt!

  Even then it took a few years to realize how much I had wasted my life. I had chosen to pioneer instead of going to college. My parents had funds set aside for college. I had an application, but one of the heavies in the congregation heard about it and stopped in to counsel me. I wish my parents had insisted but they didn’t, they weren’t witnesses yet, but maybe I would have rebelled if they had...don't know what I would have done.

  Life with my husband would have been much easier if I had more education and could have relieved some of the financial burden of his providing for our family. Years later Clyde began to feel the pressures of congregation and family responsibilities. So when they started the elder arrangement in the early 70’s, he declined which shocked everybody…but he continued as ministerial servant. However, over the years he began to gradually slow down even missing quite a few meetings. I stayed strong, however, because I felt the congregation was a protection for our children. This put a strain on our marriage, but we survived.

  Even though I was disturbed about the 1975 fiasco, I still believed in the generation doctrine. But I couldn’t understand why people were now denying that the Society had ever said anything about 1975. I read the article in Time magazine (1982?) about Franz and felt that he was a good man for sticking to his convictions. Also read an article in our local newspaper about a witness couple who were disfellowshipped for reading Ray’s book, “Crisis of Conscience”, and their witness children would not longer have anything to do with them. I knew one of the children.

  Later, I remember the shock when Clyde talked to me about his feelings about the Faithful and Discreet Slave. He said they were giving more glory to themselves than to Jehovah. He pointed out that Matthew 24:45 didn’t say they for sure they were faithful and discreet. He said I had to read verse 46, “Happy is that slave if his mater on arriving finds him doing so. That was a big “IF”. He also said, if they were God’s appointed servants, then why were they always changing doctrine? He read James 1:17, “With Him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow.” He said Jehovah never changes, why is the organization always changing? He also said there had to be dissension at Bethel. I asked what made him think that. He pointed out that one article would point us in one direction, then another article would say just the opposite. I couldn't disagree.

  I remember my dismay when I read an article in 1998 about “Feelings of Having Suffered Needlessly.” It mentioned brothers who had been imprisoned because they wouldn’t accept alternative service, and then the Society had changed their stance. They compared it with the change from the old law of Moses to the new law, and it was commendable that they suffered even though shouldn’t have had to. That didn’t make any sense at all.

  That was the year that I finally went on the Internet. I didn’t know where to start but I typed in the words, “Franz, 1975, Jehovah). I was mostly interested in what happened at Bethel that made Raymond Franz leave. Found out much much more than I bargained for, as I never thought about leaving the “truth.” Even when I did, it was a slow fade. I kept thinking I’ve been a witness for 42 years, I can’t stop now. Then I thought…if I don’t stop now, when???

  My parents were aging, my mother started developing Alzheimers. My father was still alive and very committed to taking care of her at home. I was the only other relative available to help out, but I was working full-time, it took a lot out of me. I spent most evenings at their house, often spending the night, and most of the weekend. That prompted an elders’ visit as to why I stopped reporting field service time. They said I could at least report 15 minutes! I explained my circumstances, and one of them said that I had to remember that there are people out in the territory that had no “hope.” I didn’t say it, but I should have said, “My parents sit in their house hoping that somebody from the congregation would just stop by to visit.” It’s amazing how friends can disappear when you get too old to be of use to the congregation. I thought, if my father is an elder in the congregation, lives only one mile from the Kingdom Hall, and my parents rarely get a visitor, then what chance do my husband and I have, living 10 miles from the KH.

  I don’t have time to tell you all the agony I went through when it was discovered that we weren’t going to attend meetings any more. My mother had already passed, but my father, brother, daughter, nieces, and all my witness cousins turned against me.

  The bright spot in this story is that our two sons, their wives, and my husband are all out, and we are very close knit. The hardest loss was our daughter. She has had almost no contact with us in over 9 years…doesn’t respond to letters or emails…refused to attend her brother’s wedding. BTW, none of us are disfellowshipped. Still I have to say, that the last 10 years have been the best ones of my life. We are free and we can enjoy our sons and their families (they live close by) without interference from the WT.

  Don't know if anybody is interested, but my baptism in 1956 was in a lake. Do they ever baptize in lakes any more?
  

  Love, Bonnie
  
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  171

  RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

  now, on with the leaks & releases!

  first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Bonnie_Clyde 12 hours ago

  Debela Herta 39 minutes ago

  Moderators, please can somebody delete Watchtower Free's post with photo of Pioneers school? I feel really embarrassed because of that photo (there are many people I know, and they are not that kind of people described on photo).

  Please, be kind, and delete it.

  I agree! That post is entirely inappropriate.

  It has been 12 hours. Will you please delete the photo that Watchtower Free posted?
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  171

  RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

  now, on with the leaks & releases!

  first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Debela Herta 39 minutes ago

  Moderators, please can somebody delete Watchtower Free's post with photo of Pioneers school? I feel really embarrassed because of that photo (there are many people I know, and they are not that kind of people described on photo).

  Please, be kind, and delete it.

  I agree! That post is entirely inappropriate.
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  Hard to Remember but Back in the Ninteen Fifies...

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my writing a book about my strange life as a jw.

  i need some help.. does anyone remember when they used to get these charts out at the service meetings which had all the hours, "back calls" and bible studies on it?

  what did they call that?.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  The chart not only showed the numbers for the publishers but also for the pioneers. If there was only one pioneer in the congregation, everybody knew exactly what they did each month.
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  38

  Hard to Remember but Back in the Ninteen Fifies...

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my writing a book about my strange life as a jw.

  i need some help.. does anyone remember when they used to get these charts out at the service meetings which had all the hours, "back calls" and bible studies on it?

  what did they call that?.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Women could not give talks until January 1959...only men.

  If someone was disfellowshipped, they would give the reason when it was announced.
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  21

  Why is it ok for witnesses to go to Church backed hospitals?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if witnesses should "get out of babylon the great" then why is it ok to go into hospitals that have been set up, and have funding from churches?.

  isnt that a little contradictory or hypocritical?.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  • Kingdom Ministry. November 1964 on page 4.

  Question Box: Should one of Jehovah's witnesses go to a religious hospital for treatment and care?

  "If a hospital is owned by a false religious organization, then it is operated by a segment of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. So those of Jehovah's witnesses who live in an area where they have a choice of hospitals would undoubtedly choose a hospital that is in no way associated with a false religious organization. However, sometimes persons are unconscious and cannot make a choice, or there is no other hospital in the vicinity, or the religious hospital may be the only one equipped to care for the particular thing needing attention. Under these circumstances one of Jehovah's witnesses might go to the religious hospital and pay for care he receives, viewing this simply as paying for services rendered. It would not be the same as making a contribution for the purpose of supporting the false religious organization. Thus, Jehovah's witnesses may go to religious hospitals for treatment and care if circumstances require it and if they choose to do so."

  I was pregnant in 1967 and would have had the baby at the local Catholic hospital, but instead went to another hospital in the same city. About the same time, a brother in our congregation was employed at the Catholic Hospital and his wife convinced him that he should quit even though he didn't want to. They ended up moving out of state because he couldn't find any other employment in the area.

  It wasn’t long before the thinking changed (I never saw anything more in print) Within two or three years I noticed that witnesses were again working at the Catholic hospital or seeking treatment there. I had another baby in 1974 and delivered in the Catholic Hospital.
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  what buzz word from the jw's do you hate & why?

  by Sabin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so my hubby has been on a bit of a roll about the jdubs, we were talking a lot about them & he said the buzz word he hate's the most is "worldly" why?

  because he say's "with that one word they have condemned (according to their believes) a person as being worthy of nothing but death.

  ".

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Spiritual paradise - haven't heard it lately but it used to really annoy me.
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  36

  Good news to report: Congregations merged because lack of attendance, publishers & field service

  by Khaleesi in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so it's official, i am happy to report that we merged with another congregation having the same problem.

  why is it good news???

  because people are either waking up, fading or just not buying into this organization any longer or walking away.... i think many young ones are just not buying into it as much, i see many in the congregation i go to very depressed and some i know personally going thru major depression especially the young "sisters" in their early 20s.... .

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  I just found out that 2 congregations in lower Michigan closed recently...Morenci, which is near the Ohio border, and Coldwater. I asked if the reason was because of a shortage of elders and was told no, it was because neither one could afford to remodel. Now both congregations have to drive to Hillsdale, Michigan, for their meetings. The people in Morenci have a 45-minute drive and the people in Coldwater have a 33-minute drive. Too bad the WT can't afford to help them remodel! I understand that neither KH has been sold...yet. Just sitting empty.
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  52

  $10 per pub. Money begging session last night

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night, during our "christian life and ministry" meeting, we had a session on local needs.

  elder opened the talk with a disclaimer saying that this was a reminder (cited psalms about how david loved jehovahs reminders).

  he reminded us of how bless we are of having our own local assembly hall.

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Well folks! I've been around for a long time and I remember when we used high schools for our circuit assemblies. Some high schools (early 70's) cost $1,000 for the weekend (3 days), others were free...I know that because Clyde was in accounting. Then they proposed construction of an assembly hall with the excuse that it was cheaper than having to pay rent for a facility. Huh!

  I also remember a scripture in Acts (would have to look it up) where we would tell people that early Christians met in school auditoriums and that we follow their example.

  I also remember that we rented a facility for the Kingdom Hall. In our city it was a room above a grocery store and a bar. They finally build a Kingdom Hall in 1959, but it was pretty basic, even had a concrete floor...not acceptable these days.