Posts by AnnOMaly

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

Sir82: Maybe they're thinking "We're going to lose no matter what. But this way, we can spin it to the R&F JWs that it is 'persecution', that 'Satan is controlling the courts - why look - they won't even let us present our case! how unfair!' The idiots will eat it up and we'll come out looking good ...

Well, it's been done before.

A lesson from WT history:

*** w99 2/1 p. 17 par. 14 Our Treasure in Earthen Vessels ***

Joseph F. Rutherford, who had temporarily been a judge in Missouri, became the next president. As a result of his fearless advocacy of Bible truth, Christendom’s clergy joined forces with politicians in “framing trouble by decree.” On June 21, 1918, Brother Rutherford and seven other leading Bible Students were jailed, with multiple concurrent sentences of 10 or 20 years. The Bible Students fought back. (Psalm 94:20; Philippians 1:7) On appeal, they were released on March 26, 1919, and were later completely exonerated [a fat fib] of the false [true] charge of sedition. This experience served to mold them into stalwart advocates of truth. With Jehovah’s help, they left no stone unturned to win out in the spiritual fight to proclaim the good news despite the opposition of Babylon the Great.

ScenicViewer, thanks for transcribing an excerpt of Mr. Zalkin's interview.

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

I will agree with BOTR to the extent that she believes there is a good chance the verdict does not survive appeal. Any prior appeals would not have examined the issue of whether striking the WTS's defense and entering default judgment is the appropriate remedy, so that is a new issue for appeal.

... although, Mr. Zalkin in the podcast made the point that Watchtower's successfully appealing in the same courts they've already appealed to (Appeal and Superior regarding Plaintiff's motions to impose sanctions for Watchtower's failure to comply), and where they refused to abide by the judgments and orders by those appellate judges/referees, may actually prove to be a tad difficult for them. We'll see.

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

Thanks Listener and Jaymes for the heads-up.

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

This is not an area in which I want to get involved, esp. when members here routinely post mere court filings. No one has been found liable or guilty. Proof has not been offered. Anyone, regardless of merit, can file a complaint.

You have a lot to say for somebody who does not want to get involved, BOTR. I have no idea why you are saying "no one has been found liable or guilty" and "proof has not been offered." It went beyond 'complaint'; it went to trial; evidence was presented; judgments were made; Watchtower was found liable. Whether those judgments will be upheld on appeal, we will have to wait and see.

I have higher standards. No, I will not read court documents. I can surmise plenty. My training as a lawyer is stronger than my antiWitness bias. I suggest you are unable to understand the proceedings.

What's this? You say you are a lawyer and yet here you are surmising about this case without bothering to check the relevant facts first; you're somehow above doing that? I'm sure they didn't teach that approach at lawyer school.

I don't get you, I really don't.

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

No! If you want me to read legal documents, pay me legal fees. I am tired of explaining the legal process and providing legal information. So, so tired.

Aren't you overreacting? You are participating on this forum on an informal, casual basis primarily to discuss things relating to JWs. You are not on this forum for your legal expertise. You, like the rest of us, can choose to read the documents out of interest. It is ridiculous to say, in this setting, you're not reading them unless you are paid to do so.

If you are not apprised of the facts of these cases, then you will not know which points of law have been applied and judgments made on and further, you cannot justifiably declare that these law suits do not have merit (? kind of an insulting thing to say, don't you think?). You cannot claim inaccurate reporting and bias unless you have acquainted yourself with the details of the cases. You cannot accuse the Andersons of withholding crucial information if you refuse to read the information contained within the documents. Getting all worked up doesn't alter this basic principle.

Nobody is compelling you to research CA law; the lawyers and judges involved have already done it and will continue to do it throughout the appeals process. Nobody is seeking your legal opinion; you are offering it voluntarily. However, if doing so causes you so much distress, don't do it. Leave us non-specialists to stab around in the dark. You have better things to do, evidently.

17

Kingdom Hall consolidations in the UK

by raymond frantz in

/from reliable sources (brothers in position within the congragation) i've been informed that in two different location within the uk congragations are to be consolidated .these men are loyal to the society and have no contact with ex-jw community .many brothers and sisters within these 4 congragations are devasted and undertantably very upset .one of these congragation has in excess of 150k in the bank currently "held" by the society as a loan .do you have any more information on this ?

is this just a one off or a new trend ?.

.

AnnOMaly

Each congregation's surplus cash has now gone to the Society, leaving them with only a modest amount for running costs and emergency small repairs/maintenance. Naturally, if e.g. 2 congregations are combined into 1, instead of 2 modest pots of ready cash, only 1 modest pot of ready cash is needed, allowing more 'surplus' to be skimmed off and sent to 'Mother.' So ...

... what smiddy said.

32

BTTT / Marked topics

by Simon in

i've noticed a lot of topics being bumped recently with "bttt" (back to the top) comments or "marked" as the reply.. i'd appreciate if people think twice before doing this.

simply forcing topics back to the top even though there is nothing to say on them is not helpful and negates the usefulness of having an active topics view.

if everyone did this with every topic they want to push then things would quickly deteriorate so i don't believe some should be allowed to do it for whatever reason.. by all means post new and relevent comments to a topic but short esp single-word non-comments that are simply used to push certain topics back to the top are likely to be interpreted as spam and removed or blocked if necessary.. .

AnnOMaly

OK, 'marked' is overused, granted, but it's a darned sight easier and quicker just to go to 'Topics Posted On' and find a recent thread than trawling through pages of random threads. Often I can't remember the thread title or it's not where I thought it was or there are similar ones to sift through. The search facility can waste far more time than just 'marking' a thread and finding it in my 'Topics Posted On' section.

As for 'BTTT' or 'Bump,' perhaps a brief comment could be added as to why a thread is being bumped - especially long dead and buried ones?

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

Hmm.

This forum is NOT real life.

I don't know what that means. This is a forum where matters pertaining to real life are discussed.

I have no duty to read legal documents.

Nobody here has a 'duty' to read legal documents but reading at least one of them is helpful if we want to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way.

The issue of notice to WTBTS is pending in the Conti appeal. I'm not checking but I believe both Conti and this case happened before CA's legislature enacted a mandatory reporting law for clergy. The WTBTS can argue that it had no notice that its behavior would subject it to liability. We don't pass laws in the United States making past conduct that was lawful at the time unlawful. Larger issues than the WTBTs are at stake.

You're not checking, so you are unaware that the mandatory reporting issue was not a factor in the judgment against Watchtower in the Conti case.

Unless the legal department had actual notice and counseled Witness elders to ignore the pedophile behavior, I feel it is unfair to impose liability on the WT.

You haven't checked, so you are unaware of what Watchtower and the elders were actually found liable for.

Fundamentally, I just don't see how you ignore a discovery order. ... The legal system cannot work unless you produce yourself and documents.

Precisely. That was what exasperated the court, and the Plaintiff argued the latter point. I'm glad you've now read the short UPI news report at least. However, may I respectfully suggest, BOTR, rather than spend lots of time reading this thread and typing posts saying how you have no time or duty to read legal documents but offering an opinion anyway, why not use a little of that time to scan through one of the documents so that any comments you wish to make about this case are more on the mark. Given your time constraints, I recommend THIS ONE. As I say, it's a respectful suggestion.

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

How much would you love to see a member of the GB on the stand being grilled by a tenacious lawyer?

Hell yeah!

I would also like to know the answer to JW GoneBad's question:

What committee does WT legal fall under? What GB or GBs oversee WT legal if it's not under any of the above mentioned committees?

I would like to know what the difference is between the "U.S. Service Department" that Lösch denies ever having "surpervised" or "worked for" and the "Service Committee" that he is part of. (Declaration of Gerrit Lösch- scroll about half way down.) Don't the Committees supervise the Departments?

I would like to know how long Lösch has been part of the Service Committee as a GB member.

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

AnnOMaly

And another thing that's jaw-dropping - Chaserious's post about why Watchtower thought Lösch shouldn't be called to give a deposition. After the 'Dalai Lama' comparision (WTH?), Copley says that Lösch is "not an officer," "not a director," "not an employee," "not a managing agent" and "not even part of the organization"! (Page 6 of THIS TRANSCRIPT.)

So Copley is trying to argue that Lösch is a nobody, a nothing, as far as Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower organization are concerned? Then how is it he has oversight of the Service Committee? How can Copley brazenly lie like that, in court, and still believe he has the God of Truth's approval?

*** w08 5/15 p. 29 How the Governing Body Is Organized ***

SERVICE COMMITTEE: Those on this committee have oversight of the preaching work and matters affecting congregations, pioneers, elders, and traveling overseers. It supervises the preparation of Our Kingdom Ministry and calls in Gilead School and Ministerial Training School students, later giving them postgraduate assignments.