Posts by AnnOMaly

72

When Was Jerusalem Destroyed By The Babylonians?

by Smart in

can someone explain in easy to understand language what this argument is all about.

i am not that clever.

i am hoping to talk to the elders about this as well as whoever is willing to talk about it on here.

AnnOMaly

sloppyjoe: This is only going to end up badly for you.

Ditto. If you have nothing to lose, Smart, and are curious to see for yourself how this plays, then go for it.

The Org has known about the fundamental problems with its chronology since Russell's day. People from inside the Org and outside of it have repeatedly pointed out its errors year after year after year. Those within the Org at first get fobbed off or else shouted down (e.g. Rutherford's 1922 articles); if they persist they get warned; then if they still don't shut the hell up, they get disfellowshipped (e.g. Carl Jonsson and a host of others). Those outside of the Org get fobbed off and/or ignored. The Org will not budge. It can't or its doctrine about its divinely given authority evaporates and the leadership is left with being a small group of jumped-up nobodies.

72

When Was Jerusalem Destroyed By The Babylonians?

by Smart in

can someone explain in easy to understand language what this argument is all about.

i am not that clever.

i am hoping to talk to the elders about this as well as whoever is willing to talk about it on here.

AnnOMaly

What will they likely say if i clearly show them this is correct?

They may ask how you came by the information or why you thought to research it. (If they suspect you were prompted by reading 'apostate' sources, their minds will automatically shut down and no reasoned discussion will be possible.)

They may say that the publications say 'it is thought' the kings reigned those lengths of time but it is not proven, and they may direct you to the two 2011 WT articles on Jerusalem's destruction (October and November issues) that suggest 20 years are missing from the conventional time line. (In which case you can bat the ball back in their court and ask that they provide solid evidence for those missing years.)

They may ask you the 'loyalty question' - do you believe this is God's Organization/the GB is the chosen 'faithful and discreet slave' class? (If you say 'no,' you're done for! Evade or affirm or change the subject or act offended that they should even call into question your loyalty when all you are doing is trying to find out the truth of the matter.)

72

When Was Jerusalem Destroyed By The Babylonians?

by Smart in

can someone explain in easy to understand language what this argument is all about.

i am not that clever.

i am hoping to talk to the elders about this as well as whoever is willing to talk about it on here.

AnnOMaly

I believe that at one time (up to the early 20th century?), 607 was the date used by many historians.

Never for Jerusalem's destruction. Any historians using 607/606 considered it to be the beginning of Nebuchadnezzar's reign. It's now established to be 605/604 (accession year/1st year).

72

When Was Jerusalem Destroyed By The Babylonians?

by Smart in

can someone explain in easy to understand language what this argument is all about.

i am not that clever.

i am hoping to talk to the elders about this as well as whoever is willing to talk about it on here.

AnnOMaly

^ Yeah Londo's videos are well worth the time too :-)

Lots of resources out there.

Does anyone know off hand any credible quote from a professor or someone which I can show to the elders?

It won't matter. 'The professors are wrong, see. They go by profane, secular chronology while we JWs go by God's Word the Bible and its chronology.' That misunderstanding can be squashed but this'll be the come-back.

Anyway, the burden of proof is on the elder - if you really want to go down that road with him (it'll be long haul if he's honestly willing for a two-way discussion to happen). Ask him why JWs are alone in the 607 date when ALL respected authorities say 587/6 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction. Get him to do the research. Get him doing the work and provide you with sound evidence for the 607 date.

72

When Was Jerusalem Destroyed By The Babylonians?

by Smart in

can someone explain in easy to understand language what this argument is all about.

i am not that clever.

i am hoping to talk to the elders about this as well as whoever is willing to talk about it on here.

AnnOMaly

Start with Tom Cabeen's article. Scroll down to the subheading, Is Watchtower Chronology Sound?

http://ad1914.com/2014/11/20/are-we-living-in-a-special-time/

Alan Feuerbacher's article expands on those six points and is pretty easy to follow.

http://ad1914.com/biblical-evidence-against-watchtower-society-chronology/

I agree with the others when they say don't even think about broaching the subject with an elder unless you have some idea what you are talking about.

Oh, and Smart? Take deep breaths in and out. I understand why this knowledge can hit you like a brick and send your emotions all over the place. You are lucky, though. You are young. You have no JW family. You have only been baptised 2 years. You can come out of this relatively unscathed (compared to long-timers and born-ins) and start living the rest of your life.

Any more questions on this subject, no matter how 'stupid,' don't be afraid to ask. We're here to help :-)

43

WT Study Article Nov. 23, 2014--Adam understood "day" to be 24 hours

by Cadellin in

interesting admission in today's wt: adam may have understood "day" (as in "in the day you eat from it, you will positively die") to be a literal 24-hour period.

i don't think the wt has ever said this before; the usual emphasis is that jah meant it as a figurative day, a day from his standpoint which is 1,000 years (and the article does state that, later).. however, if adam understood god's warning to be carried out in a 24 hour period, and god did nothing to alleviate that, then who did the lying?

actually, regardless of adam's understanding, the question still stands but moving toward an admission of the use of day in that context to be 24-hours only makes the question even more valid.

AnnOMaly

Satan said three things would happen if they ate: (1) Eyes opened; (2) Be like God; (3) You will not die.

Genesis 3:22 - "Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever"

So Satan was correct, according to Jehovah's word: Their eyes were opened and they had become like God.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

19

Buffalo JW's in a panic!

by nowwhat? in

"we cant go door to door in 7 feet of snow!

".

AnnOMaly

Wimps.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20130415/full-time-service-near-arctic-circle/

Sometimes the snow on the roads was deep. If someone had already traveled down the road and left tracks in the snow, it was easier for us to walk. But if it snowed again, the tracks would be covered. In the early spring, the snow would become soft and wet, and this made it difficult to walk.

Together in the ministry on a cold winter day

We learned to dress warmly when it was cold and snowy. We wore woolen stockings, two or three pairs of socks, and tall boots. But snow would often get into our boots as we walked. When we arrived at the stairs of a house, we took off our boots and shook the snow out of them. Also, the bottom edges of our long coats would get wet and freeze solid because they would drag in the snow. One housewife said, ‘You must have real faith, because you came out in this bad weather.’ We had walked over 11 kilometers (7 miles) to that house.

28

We're not dealing with sincere anointed who genuinely believe their teachings but scam artists

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

looking at all the doctrinal teachings over the last five years, it's almost impossible for any person of conscience who originated such doctrine to do a complete u-turn and change it when the passage of time has proved beyond doubt that doctrine is no longer credible.. i say this with reference to the generation of 1914. they were so sure.

it was part of the awake!

masthead for decades that those who saw the events of 1914 would also see the great tribulation.. .

AnnOMaly

And I'm beginning to wonder about the sincerity of the Governing Body.

Either they are fooling themselves OR they are perpetuating a SCAM on the body of believers. ...

... They are deliberately and wilfully perpetuating a scam to fool the masses because they have to keep the Great Watchtower engine well oiled or the whole thing comes to an end.

It's an uncomfortable conclusion when you try to think the best of people.

Revelation 14:1, 4, 5 - "Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. ... These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,  and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."

Surely, because they and their predecessors have continued, in the face of all the evidence, to perpetuate falsehoods and have used underhanded, dishonest means to give the appearance of credibility to those falsehoods, one can suppose that even within the bounds of the JW belief system they have disqualified themselves from being a part of the 144k group.

16

Understanding our CURE from ADDICTION to the Watchtower cult.

by Fernando in

would it be fair to say many of the posts on jwn are in essence about this?.

if we could better understand what worked for us, would we be better able to help others?.

where do basic human needs ("met" by the cult) end, and where does addiction start?.

AnnOMaly

As another born-in, I also don't feel I was addicted to the WT religion - it was imposed upon me; it was the only worldview I had. In fact, as an adult, there were occasional (legitimate) circumstances in my life that meant I could not attend meetings for weeks - one period of absence lasted months! I did just fine, enjoyed the time away and on my return picked up where I left off no problem.

One time (back when there were three meeting days a week) was when the hall was being refurbished and the congo met in groups at their assigned book study venues once a week to catch up on the 'spiritual food.' "Oh ..." some would say, almost as if it was a kind of withdrawal, "we're so glad the hall's finished. We've really missed not being at the meetings. Have you missed it?" Of course, Watchtower does treat meeting attendance like everyone is a spiritual diabetic and needs their regular shot of spiritual insulin, and if people miss a meeting they'll become spiritually sick and die. I'd give them the un-'theocratically correct' answer and say no, that it was nice to be back but the change of routine was great. I'd get puzzled looks.

It all makes sense when you realize that you're not actually 'diabetic' and their unique 'insulin' concoction they are giving you is, in reality, making you sick ... which realization I only caught on to years later.

Hmm, that reminds me of a P!nk song ...

20

Elders: Born-Ins vs Recruits

by breakfast of champions in

this is an unofficial survey.. was curious as to the number of currently serving elders who were born-in and/or raised as jw versus those who were "recruited"( i.e, not born in or raised as jw.).

for instance, right now in the hall i am assigned to:.

2 elders were born-in and/or raised as jws.. 5 were not (recruited as adults).

AnnOMaly

Out of 13 elders at my old Hall, 3 are born/raised, 2 I don't know, and the rest are adult converts.