Phizzy,
great point.
I started this thread to see if anyone else had the same thoughts as I.
your confirmation is fulfilling
Maat
Maat13
JoinedPosts by Maat13
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6
Apostates are more all knowing than GOD?
by Maat13 inif "apostates" can predict what jw.org will do (i.e., doctrinal changes, business practices, etc), but jw.org gb is led by god's holy spirit, then yes.
apostates are more all knowing than god.
random thought of the day...i'm sure it's not original.. maat.
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6
Apostates are more all knowing than GOD?
by Maat13 inif "apostates" can predict what jw.org will do (i.e., doctrinal changes, business practices, etc), but jw.org gb is led by god's holy spirit, then yes.
apostates are more all knowing than god.
random thought of the day...i'm sure it's not original.. maat.
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Maat13
Stuckinarut2,
"running ahead of the Holy Spirit" and "self willed" ....wow...these are good...funny...and sad at the same time
I'm sure there are other terms to describe apostate's all knowing ability...cause if the God of the Bible is all knowing....apostates deserve a whole new term.
Maat
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6
Apostates are more all knowing than GOD?
by Maat13 inif "apostates" can predict what jw.org will do (i.e., doctrinal changes, business practices, etc), but jw.org gb is led by god's holy spirit, then yes.
apostates are more all knowing than god.
random thought of the day...i'm sure it's not original.. maat.
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Maat13
Interesting....
if this is in fact true, then allow me to purposely take 1 Corinthians 9:22 completely out of context and offer these thoughts. As I see the R&F gobbling this up as a great sign of the "increased preaching work" before the end times.
How different is this from
1.) the epic film "photodrama of creation"....(correct me if I'm wrong)...somehow "birth of a nation" is a Freudian slip
2.) Radio broadcasts from Russell or Rutherford and others
3.) the use of phonographs to do door to door preaching.
4.) the use of VCR tapes to document the struggles of their brothers and sisters over the last 100years as well as videos showing the R&F how to be good witnesses.
5.) the use of CD's to provide watchtower and awake articles to those who wanted to listen to articles in their homes and vehicles
6.) what about all of those live dramas that were filmed over the last umpteen years at the now defunct "district" conventions..renamed .....
7.) how about the increased number of live dramas at those conventions over the last several years
8.) the creation of JW.org....even after we ( when I was in) was told to stay off the internet.
9.) and the creation, production and dissemination of cartoon shorts to aid young ones into the truth
10.) what about televising those GREAT talks everyone always talked about
11.) How about putting more faces to "struggles" by others nationally and internationally on stage instead of those just local to your region
12.) and all of those wonderful songs, now being sung the way composers really want to project them.
13.) and now this television network to culminate 100 years of this work for the R&F and more importantly the masses.
Farfetched....not to those still in.....this creation is right on cue and absolutely awesome...
Maat
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Ancient and classical beliefs with similarities found in the Bible
by RetroTherapy inancient and classical beliefs with similarities found in the bible.
ive been studying religions and beliefs lately and ive been noting all the similarities they have with the bible.
i havent even scratched the surface with my notes and im nowhere even near learning all of them but i think some of you might find what ive found so far interesting.
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Maat13
RetroTherapy,
perhaps it may be a good idea to stay away from any belief system similar to the bible.
Has this new found information shed any new light or aided you to a new conclusion?
Maat
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The Books That Redefined C.T. Russell's Beliefs
by Maat13 inaccording to wt history, as a youth/young man, ct russell was unsatisfied with a number of explanations he was taught about the bible.
as a result he went on a quest to 'study' the bible himself.
ultimately this led to an organization that now requires its members to read bible aids to help them understand the bible.
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Maat13
Separation of Power, you said:
He did not obviously agree with Miller's calculations but subscribed wholeheartedly to the belief that the epoch of time in which he was living was the "time" of God's greatest intervention. I think it goes without saying that THAT is exactly what Miller believed. Somewhat of a kindred spirit don't you think?
Yes I agree, based on my reading lately, that Russell and Miller was of kindred spirits. Even though Russell disagreed with a number of Miller's points he reverently referred to him as Father Miller...suggesting some allegiance to other beliefs Miller may have held.
I've had an opportunity to skim and/or read "Inside the story Jehovah's Witness" W.C. Stevensons; "People Who Were Important To Charles Taze Russell" Doug Mason (Thanks Doug); "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" Alan Rogerson. I am looking for a copy of "Four Major Cults" by Anthony Hoekema...This appears to be an interesting read. I found each of these works relevant and have led me to a much clearer conclusion of Russell's thoughts....
Old Goat, you said:
If you really had read Russell's Studies in the Scriptures you would have seen that he never read anything Miller wrote. (He says so, and it's obvious from content.)
I am no so sure I agree with. Russell gave almost a point by point account of what he disagreed with that Miller subscribed to. Are you sure he never read anything Miller wrote?
Also I have not found much on the Literalist movement as it relates to Adventists. Nonetheless, I found much of the information put forth by Barbour and Jonas Wendell (Miller as well) to be eerily familiar to information found in "Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel and Apocalypse of St. John" by Sir Isaac Newton, published in 1733....But then again there are those who believe that St. John's Revelations were actually an amalgamation of the Sybilline books...but that is probably best for another topic....
At this point it's obvious Russell was reaching...and took upon himself to dissiminate a number of doctrinal beliefs to the masses of people who purchased Zions Watchtower...(Was he Jewish?....why the heck was it Zion's Watchtower anyway)....He had the money and seemed to be more famous or just as famous as Calvin Coolidge. Having money does help.
Rutherford seems to have cherry picked a number of beliefs that had staying power, e.g. profitability and longevity.....Can you fault him? Is he not the quintessential preacher that drove a big caddy and lived in a luxurious home.
Finkelstein: I'm still working on the reference material you provided...give me a few weeks....to comment back...
DAGNIBIT!!!....I'm still working on getting my family out of this organization...
Maat
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BORG running low on $$$??
by fader77 indear brothers:.
re: personal literature supply.
reducing existing stock at the branch office before the revisions are released.
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Maat13
Hmmmmm....
" Recent adjustments related to doctrinal
matters will be reflected in the revised editions. Also, material in the revised books will be updated
to contain quotations and references from the revised New World Translation of the Holy
Scriptures ."
What!?!....is this letter authentic? They are admitting doctrinal changes, openly, to the rank and file. Wow...
Maat
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38
The Books That Redefined C.T. Russell's Beliefs
by Maat13 inaccording to wt history, as a youth/young man, ct russell was unsatisfied with a number of explanations he was taught about the bible.
as a result he went on a quest to 'study' the bible himself.
ultimately this led to an organization that now requires its members to read bible aids to help them understand the bible.
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Maat13
Old Goat,
I found this statement interesting about your definition of a literalist "In very simplified form, they were millennialists. They looked for Christ's near return. Unlike Millerites, they believed the Bible should be taken literially unless it clearly indicated something was symbolic"
When I was studying with the JWs years ago ( before getting baptized), I heard this explanation from a number of elders when I ask how JWs understood the bible. Would you still consider them literalist today?
Based on the information you've shared thus far, I'm inclined to believe that Russell was more of a theist, than anything else. Specifically speaking, Im thinking he would have been more content with a path to dig deeper into a better understanding of the bible rather than packaging up a few doctrines into a NEW religious movement that would become a huge money maker, with millions of devoted followers.
For the moment I still believe that that idea was more of Rutherford's and/or Knorr, not Russell's. I'm expecting my research to provide me that answer.
GLTirebiter,
I extend much appreciation to you for sharing those books. A quick glance at thier content has given me a little excitement ....I've got some more reading to do.
Great posts!
Maat
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38
The Books That Redefined C.T. Russell's Beliefs
by Maat13 inaccording to wt history, as a youth/young man, ct russell was unsatisfied with a number of explanations he was taught about the bible.
as a result he went on a quest to 'study' the bible himself.
ultimately this led to an organization that now requires its members to read bible aids to help them understand the bible.
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Maat13
So who exactly were the 'British Literalist'?
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38
The Books That Redefined C.T. Russell's Beliefs
by Maat13 inaccording to wt history, as a youth/young man, ct russell was unsatisfied with a number of explanations he was taught about the bible.
as a result he went on a quest to 'study' the bible himself.
ultimately this led to an organization that now requires its members to read bible aids to help them understand the bible.
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Maat13
Old Goat
interesting points.
my google search led me to a site containing copies of the Bible Examiner from 1843-1880... Your reference unfortunately was excluded. Only June, and August issues were viewable.
Nonetheless, it would appear there were a few key individuals, who obtained some form of notoriety, that influenced Russell. Great input...
-- G. Storrs: Misapprehension Corrected, Bible Examiner, July 1849, page 106.
Maat