Onager

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Posts by Onager

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  19

  Pull the Plug Already...

  by megaboy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  after reading and seeing so many detailings of the dealings with people in this religion, i have to wonder how to get people who are just extremely asleep.

  reasoning doesn't seem like it works, there needs to be some kind of plug pull event, like the leaders doing something so uterly stupid that it causes the immediate downfall of the entire religion.

  but because i am naturally curious i want to know from people who have more experience with jw structure why they seem to have a resistance to an event like this?

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  Onager

  Hi Steve2, can you suggest a proportionate scenario then?

  Remember we're not discussing the likelihood of this happening, it's a hypothetical scenario for waking up all JW's to the fact that the organisation is wrong.
  
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  19

  Pull the Plug Already...

  by megaboy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  after reading and seeing so many detailings of the dealings with people in this religion, i have to wonder how to get people who are just extremely asleep.

  reasoning doesn't seem like it works, there needs to be some kind of plug pull event, like the leaders doing something so uterly stupid that it causes the immediate downfall of the entire religion.

  but because i am naturally curious i want to know from people who have more experience with jw structure why they seem to have a resistance to an event like this?

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  Onager

  The organisation could die... if the money ran out. Then the people would splinter into a million JW type sub groups, most of which would die out, but some could thrive and even grow larger than the original.

  As I said in another thread, the only pull-the-plug scenario that I can envisage to wake up all the people in the organisation in its current form is a direct, divine, planet wide revelation. God actually appearing in the sky to everyone on the planet and saying that the JW's are wrong.
  
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  6

  Present day tree.

  by pleaseresearch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since leaving and fading.

  i don't celebrate christmas but in its place which is sad i know.

  we have present day.

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  Onager

  There are many aspects of Christmas that I don't like, the commercialisation, the lying to children about an invisible person who brings them presents, the over indulgence and so on. On top of that I don't have any cultural background of Christmas traditions, so the tree and the turkey and crackers and tinsel have no resonance for me.

  BUT! The glow of the lights in a dark time of the year, the spending time with my (non JW) relatives and seeing their joy at giving our child gifts... is magical. who in their right mind wouldn't want that in their lives??
  
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  81

  Secret sex in the Org

  by pomo6780 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  2 pioneers of the opposite sex.

  the brother is in his mid-20s, sister is in her late 20s.

  both are alone in car as the only 2 out in field service.

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  Onager

  Man's best friend has sex with his wife. Husband is furious and berates his wife for the loss of his best friend. Portsmouth South congregation.

  You know a man's best friend is his dog right??
  
  
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  102

  If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.

  in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).

  it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.

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  Onager

  Then I lay there in the gutter and my heart was all a-flutter,
  Till a lady, passing by, did chance to say:
  "You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses,"
  Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.
  - The Famous Pig Song

  I'm sorry, but like the pig, I'm going to walk away from this thread.
  
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  58

  Non JW wife/JW husband Christmas tree debate

  by spacegirl443 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first post here and looking for advice and help.

  sorry in advance for it being so long :(.

  i'm a happily married woman (no kids) who is a non-jw, presbyterian to be precise.

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  Onager

  Hi Spacegirl, oh boy you are in a pickle!

  All you need to know at the moment is that your husband's religion is crazy. Keep the discussion really simple, which will be hard because he will try and drag it all over the place. Your points could be something like:

  You do not have the same religious beliefs.

  A house is a shared space where both partners should feel equally at home.

  you're not prepared to compromise on the Christmas tree and he needs to accept that if you are to feel that where you live is your home.

  You have given up birthdays, Easter, having children(!!) for him. Is he prepared to give this up for you?
  

  Stick to your few points, don't get distracted by arguments about pagan origins, don't get sidetracked down waffle alley and don't give in!
  

  Once you get through this I'm afraid it's not going to get easier. The organisation will always be interfering. There will always be some issue unless you roll over and become a JW (and give up your free will and thinking ability). DON'T DO THAT!!!
  
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  102

  If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.

  in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).

  it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.

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  Onager

  Conscious energy is an invention of yourself, or your teacher, backed up by no facts at all.

  Evolution is a theory backed up by facts.

  The gaps in the fossil record are because fossilisation rarely happens, not because transitional species are missing. ALL species are transitional, including Homo Sapiens.
  

  The Elephant shrew is considered an insectivore... because it eats insects.
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  36

  What phobias do you have?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so this is just a general question.

  call it curiosity.. what sort of phobias do we have?

  heights?

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  Onager

  You'd get on well with my dog Phoebe. She has very firm ideas about postmen and how they should be barked off the planet if at all possible!

  I thought I had arachnophobia, but as an expert at Exmoor zoo pointed out, if I really did have arachnophobia I would not have stayed in the same room as him and the tarantula that he was holding. I guess that what I have is just a strong aversion therefore.
  
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  102

  If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.

  in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).

  it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.

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  Onager

  The Big Bang theory makes no claims to be the ultimate theory. It is the current attempt to explain the way things are.

  Energy and Conscious Energy are two completely different things. One exists and one doesn't. You see you're trying to define a god by taking something that exists (energy) and then adding stuff to it that there is no evidence for.
  

  What you're presenting is the irreducible complexity argument and that applies to your "Conscious Energy" as well, so the question remains: who created the conscious energy?
  
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  93

  Higher Education

  by Brian J in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just spent 8 hours in a 1 day elders school last weekend.

  clarification given: "moving forward any elder, ms, or pioneer who themselves or someone under their roof enrolls in higher education, may no longer qualify for privileges in the congregation.

  their qualifications will have to be reviewed by their boe.".

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  Onager

  "Greater love hath no man than he who will drive his stationwagon at 5mph away from the Org for the sake of his family." - Brian chapter 1, verse 5.