That is because the concept of the trinity is that Jesus and God are not the same person but are both in very nature God. The Father is the God of Jesus in terms of position, but that does not mean Jesus is also not God. He is called God several times throughout the Bible, including being called the "I AM" Who is Jehovah. How can you explain that there is only one God; no God before him, no God after him; only one true God, no other creator than Jehovah? Yet Jesus is also said to be God and said to be the I AM and the First and the Last and the Alpha and Omega? Do you believe in multiple Gods? Is Jesus a false god, if there is only one true God?
Posts by jonza
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199Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
cofty, try reading those verses in context. It's certainly not proof texting.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
NeverKnew: good point. Though some of the verses haven't been tampered with by the WT, at least when comparing versions it can highlight how they do their best to twist it.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
The Father Called God
II Peter 1:17
The Son called God
Rev 1:8
Rev 21:5-7
Rev 22:13-16 Jesus is the Alpha and Omega
Rev 22:7, 12, 20
Rev 22:13 First and Last
Isiah 44:6 First and LastRev 1:12-18 V17 First and Last
Exodus 3: 11-14
John 8: 56-58
John 10: 11,14,30 [30 to 33] even they think 30 means he saying he's God
Col 2:9
Phil 2: 5-11
Isiah 45:22-24
John 5:18 then 23 Jesus wants the same honor, 1 John 5:20
Luke 8:38-39Spirit is called God
Acts 5: 3-4
Acts 13:2
II Cor: 6:16
II Cor 6:19
II Tim 3:16
I Cor 3:16
II Peter 1: 20-21Trinity in Scripture
Luke 1:35
Mat 3: 16,17
Mat 28: 19
II Cor 13:14
Galatians 4:6 Gods spirit is Jesus' spiritTrinity at resurrection
1 Thes 1:9-10
John 2: 19-21
Rom 8:11
Acts 17: 30-31Then we have OT views about it:
Isa 43:10 No God before or after JAH Isa 44:8
No God besides him Isa 45:5 Isiah 44:24, 45:12 Compare Col 1:13-17
1st Peter 2: 7, 8, 9. Who is being talked about here? (Jesus start from V3 for reference), See link in V8 links to: Isa 8:14, same person? See V13
Amos 4:10-11 JAH said I overthrew you like God didZac 11:13 JAH 30 pieces of silver
God said us/we: Genesis 3:22, Gen 7:11, Isa 6:8
Jude 4
2 Peter 2:1 who bought you? see Gal 3:13, Rev 5:9
There are many other verses which talk about how there is [one] of [something] and that one is Jesus, and then elsewhere that one is God. Creator being the prime example.
We are never going to understand the very nature of God, trinity is a way people tried to comprehend Gods nature, but it's never going to allow us to fully understand Him.
Like others have said, I was raised in a Christian church being taught the trinity exists, but never really knowing why. I wasn't able to back up anything about why I believed in the trinity at all. It was only this past year or so I started to really look for Biblical evidence of it. To me at least, I'm satisified in how I now understand the concept of the trinity and I believe it's the best thing we have to do so.
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130
Involved with a JW woman
by jonza inokay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.
i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.
we're in love and seriously want to be together.
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jonza
BTW, I've already told her I want a prenup to prevent them ever being raised as a JW. She accepted this.
I'm going to get her to read CoC and watch the hassan video. She's already agreed to that too. English isn't her first language so it will take her some time.
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130
Involved with a JW woman
by jonza inokay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.
i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.
we're in love and seriously want to be together.
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jonza
cultBgone: Actually pink used to be a sign of masculinity and blue feminity in many cultures :)
I think she mostly doesn't want her family to shun her. She's still under their indoctrination big time, but she doesn't think they have the truth, though she doesn't think anyone has the real truth either now. A long time ago I saw the look of shock on her face when I showed her on jw.org that they teach Jesus isn't the mediator to all and that he didn't die for her personal sins. She wont believe that because she has read the Bible for herself and knows what it says is true regarding all that. She does not buy into their reasons whatsoever. She has stated many times she will go with what the Bible says not any man or organization.
She has stated many times that before I came a long and even when we first met that there were lots of things that she didn't agree to. E.g. being a JW is the only way to get salvation. She always believed that's upto God to decide for each individual. That includes JWs who get DF. She doesn't think she's doomed if she dies/at armagedon while DF at all.
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130
Involved with a JW woman
by jonza inokay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.
i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.
we're in love and seriously want to be together.
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jonza
The whole pagan roots thing. When I mention that the WT has many bad/pagan roots she says that's why she'd never go back to them.
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130
Involved with a JW woman
by jonza inokay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.
i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.
we're in love and seriously want to be together.
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jonza
She has said that she would try going to church with me but just once or twice, but is opposed to go to a home bible study group. She goes get wildly offensive over the trinity and 'pagan' holidays though. The worst thing she has really said about churches is the variety and 'disorganization' and that we're all lost little sheep not knowing where we want to go. But it's been a while since she said that. It actually has been one year already since she's studied the WT (since lost her privileges she didn't care to) and doesn't really pay attention at the meetings. Now when she pays attention she's just looking for the bad things that they say, though she probably doesn't realize half of the bad things they say.
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130
Involved with a JW woman
by jonza inokay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.
i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.
we're in love and seriously want to be together.
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jonza
Fair point, I realise I'm not her rescuer as such, I just want to be there for her. The main thing I have done is just ask her questions, she has shown the first steps of thinking for herself. It's a start at least. She's never once said my church is the devil or anything like that. She has just said she doesn't consider it the truth either. I get your point about waiting before getting her into a church though.
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130
Involved with a JW woman
by jonza inokay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.
i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.
we're in love and seriously want to be together.
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jonza
I think right now she is coming to terms with everything still before she can start her own research. She just said this morning that she feels like she's been lied to her whole life, and it's hard to take. The thought of her moving to be with me and then being shunned by her family is quite a lot to take right now. I love this woman and I've put in way too much to back out now. I'm not going to jump into marriage with her or kids. I will live with her for a few years at least (she wants the same) before making any life long commitments. I will use this time to help her out of this cult and hopefully into a church.