Posts by jonza

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

I fail to see how that is dishonest. I'm simply waiting on your answers before continuing to keep on answering your questions. I'm more than prepared to answer your questions. Yes they are difficult questions, and I don't pretend to have all the answers- only God does. I nevertheless don't see the point in answering your questions if you refuse to answer mine. All you are doing is making statements with no Biblical evidence to back them up. You are not addressing very specific questions I've asked you.

"Your mistake is to pretend the bible is consistent on christology - it is far from it." Where do you get that from? Hebrews 13:8: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

I'll will continue to answer your question when you answer mine. You've still yet to answer a single one. I'll be waiting.

"You are prevaricating." Speak for yourself..

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

Again putting words into my mouth. I said the Father glorfies the Son. I never said He worships Him specifically. However to give Him glory is similar to worship and be translated as worship.

Also, you are resorting to the WT technique of partial quoting. I said that is how I was explained the concept of the trinity as components years ago in church, and it was actually when I was a child. As I explained before the concept of the trinity is three persons and all are God, and that there is only one God.

You have still yet to answer any of my questions directly.

You say I'm advocating heresy, what are your reasons for thinking that? I'm going by what is clear from the Bible. You've not even said what it is you really believe or used Scripture to claim what I am saying is wrong. You're just stating your opinion with nothing to back it up.

Why would the early church need to attmpt to justify worshipping Jesus when He was clearly worshiped in the Bible? I fail to see how that is related.

I'm still waiting on your answers? Why won't you answer any of my questions?

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

I like how you put words in my mouth. I never actually said whether the Father worships Jesus or not. John 8:54 says God certainly glorifies Jesus. Revelation 5:12-14, says everyone will worship Jesus. John 5:23 says to honor Jesus just as you honor the Father. Many times God alone is said to be the only one who is to be worshiped. Again, how do you explain this if Jesus is not God yet Jesus is said to be worshiped?

cofty, so far you have been the one avoiding questions... Please answer mine: "How can you explain that there is only one God; no God before him, no God after him; only one true God, no other creator than Jehovah? Yet Jesus is also said to be God and said to be the I AM and the First and the Last and the Alpha and Omega? Do you believe in multiple Gods? Is Jesus a false god, if there is only one true God?"

Can you also answer, in the verses I listed before about how the Bible says, Jesus raised Himself from the dead, then elsewhere, the Holy Spirit raised Him from the dead, then elsewhere the Father raised Him from the dead?

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

I don't see it as grasping at straws. It is what the Bible indicates. John 10:30 "The Father and I are one" This isn't necessarily a text to support the trinity in itself, but is supportive of that fact they are in agreement.

You actually ignored my questions: "How can you explain that there is only one God; no God before him, no God after him; only one true God, no other creator than Jehovah? Yet Jesus is also said to be God and said to be the I AM and the First and the Last and the Alpha and Omega? Do you believe in multiple Gods? Is Jesus a false god, if there is only one true God?"

To answer your question. I believe yes he does. I don't think that in any way has to conflict with the concept of the trinity. Now are you going to answer my question? :)

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

I will speak for myself, I have an IQ of 158 and have two full Bsc degrees, and yes compared to God almighty my brain is tiny and can't even attempt to understand more than a very basic concept of Him.

3 persons that are in total unison, not comitee. You could describe it as the 3 natures of the same being. In church years ago, I had it explained like you take a person, they have a brain that is like the Father. They have a spirit like the Holy Spirit, and a body like Jesus. Three components, one being that is YHWH. I've heard it also described like time, past present and future, but all are of the same substance and same in nature, but each unque.

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

I'm not promoting tritheism at all. That is not the concept of the trinity. The concept of the trinity is a monothestic but it is made up of three individual persons. It is a way to explain the paradox in Bible of there only being one true God: YHWH. However the Father is called God, the Holy Spirit is called God and Jesus is called God several times.

It is a limited concept for our tiny brains to attempt to understand the unlimited infinite greatness of God.

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

That is because the concept of the trinity is that Jesus and God are not the same person but are both in very nature God. The Father is the God of Jesus in terms of position, but that does not mean Jesus is also not God. He is called God several times throughout the Bible, including being called the "I AM" Who is Jehovah. How can you explain that there is only one God; no God before him, no God after him; only one true God, no other creator than Jehovah? Yet Jesus is also said to be God and said to be the I AM and the First and the Last and the Alpha and Omega? Do you believe in multiple Gods? Is Jesus a false god, if there is only one true God?

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

cofty, try reading those verses in context. It's certainly not proof texting.

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

jonza

NeverKnew: good point. Though some of the verses haven't been tampered with by the WT, at least when comparing versions it can highlight how they do their best to twist it.