Incredible. When you want to have an honest debate and answer real questions please feel free to do so. You are making statements without giving anything to back them up at all. You have a complete refusal to answer a single question. Just by saying I'm in error does not make it so. It is you that has lots of work ahead of you.
Posts by jonza
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199Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
I refer you to this statement you made: "I am not denying that worship is rendered to Jesus in the bible - this is particularly clear in Revelation."
So are you saying the Father does not glorify the Son? Are you now saying Jesus is not to be worshiped? When earlier you said that He is?
I have already answered you. It really is quite simple. Jesus being fully man (and fully God) and a perfect sinless man obeys the law and therefore worships God. Being also fully God means He is not less than the Father.
John 5:18 says clearly Jesus was making Himself equal with God. That is not the words of any other man talking, that is Scripture. They knew who He was claiming to be.
I am giving straight answers to your questions. I'm still waiting for your answers.
Are you going to answer any of my questions now?
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
Jesus remained a man therefore would continue to worship the Father. I'm more than happy for you to ask questions about that.
I've already answered your question. I don't see why God the Father would need to worship the Son, being a man. To the best of my knowledge that isn't clear in the Bible. I've already shown where the Bible says that the Father glorifies Jesus and declares that He is to be worshiped. That you have agreed to. That being said, the Bible states, God alone is to be worshiped. How can you explain that? (add that to the list of unanswered questions).
Are you going to answer any of my questions now?
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
After His resurrection Jesus remained fully man and fully God.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
While I still don't see a question there I will try to decipher one. I will assume your question is: "If Jesus worshiped God and the Father is the God of Jesus that how can that not mean the Father is greater than the Son?"
Jesus the man was born subject to the law (Galatians 4:4) and therefore was required to worship God as well as acknowledge Him as God (Deuteronomy 6:13). Philippians 2:7 says Jesus emptied himself and took on the form of a man. Therefore He used to be of a much higher position until He became a man. When Jesus worships God and calls him His God here is merely keeping the law as a man. That does not mean He is not also fully God though.
Are you going to answer any of my questions now?
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
Where is your question? You are far from clear. This little symbol '?' denotes a question. See my first sentence for an example.
You haven't mentioned any verses at all thus far.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
If you read the context of 1 Corinthians 11:3 it is talking about the authority of God over Christ. That has nothing to do with importance or who's better. The context is all about how man is the head of the woman just as God is the head of Christ. Authority not inequality. Do you consider a man to be more important or better than woman because he is her head? He is submissive to the Father especially since becoming a man but that does not mean He is less than God. John 10:30 Jesus says "I and the Father are one" indicating their equality.
I've not evaded any question so far. I've answered all of your questions. So far, you have answered none of mine.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
designs: why are you bringing Jews into this? I thought this debate was based on the Bible as we know it, OT + NT. I believe the Bible is complete, real and true it is fulness. I'm not trying to debate that issue. I also believe it has been accurately translated. Except for the NWT ofc.
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
Isaiah 9:6: " For a child has been born to us, A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. "
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199
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t inthis is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.
the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.
the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.
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jonza
According to Revelation 5:11-14 every one will worship Jesus.
Also why do the WT translate the same word for worship as obeisance whenever it comes to Jesus? Every other Bible says worship as it's the same greek word used when it comes to the Father or to Jesus. The concept of the trinity has nothing to do with the worship of Jesus. The Bible says to worship Him; whether you believe in the concept of the trinity or not makes no difference. If you believe what the Bible says you should worship Him.
Jesus the man worships His Father, I don't see why God needs to worship Jesus. I don't see why the Holy Spirit or God would need to worship each other. It was only Jesus the man who worshiped His Father. You are thinking in human terms of a physical Father, where the Father of the Bible is symbolic in terms of authority. Same as the sense the Son, is a term of authority not being. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all YHWH as clearly stated in the Bible.
Jesus is said to be God in the Bible. The Holy Spirit is said to be God in the Bible. The Holy Spirit is said to be Jesus' Spirit in the Bible. The Holy Spirit is said to be Gods Spirit in the Bible. We are said to be able to have Jesus' Spirit inside us in the Bible. We are said to have the Holy Spirit inside us in the Bible. There is said to be only one God in the Bible. There is said to be no other god before or after YHWH in the Bible. There is said to be only one true God in the Bible.
How do you opposes of the trinity make sense of these facts without using the concept of the trinity? I've still yet to see a single statement based on the Bible to explain these things.
So are you going to answer my questions? This, I think is the fourth time I've asked now.
You are the only one without answers. You are the only one who seems confused and incapable of explaining what the Bible teaches.