stephen

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Posts by stephen

• 
  31

  13 soldiers dead!!!

  by petespal2002 in

  1. social
  2. current
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  I was hoping to get into some really interesting discussions on this site - oh well
• 
  31

  13 soldiers dead!!!

  by petespal2002 in

  1. social
  2. current
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  SORRY - THIS WAS IN REPLY TO DAKOTA RED

  (my original first comment)

  I am amazed that so many responses here indicate partisan feelings, which amazement is probably the result of my coming to the realisation some considerable time ago that mankind as a whole has never EVER dealt satisfactorily with its sad tendency to violence, and I believe will never The ability demonstrably is absent

  Sadly, this is true. There are those throughout history that just want more than they are entitled too and they force others to fight to keep what they have. With tyrants, you surrender or fight them, no other choices. Convince them to stop building weapons and attacking others, you may solve the problem.

  Of course ? previous to about 200 years ago everything, including war, was very local and therefore very much more personal, (but if you were in a field up the road you might not have even heard it) but the behaviour you advocate certainly did not and still does not ever begin to dissuade armies, nations or factions from making ever more deadly and efficient weapons - in fact it stimulates this very activity as you are now stimulated

  You advocate identifying yourself so closely, with who you consider to be the enemy, by your identical behaviour, and to the observer the difference is actually undiscernible

  Yes clearly there IS a choice

  Jesus advocated surrender

  Will you say that your choice is superior to his ?

  expressed the usual anxiety and fear that the army is ok for a career and the hope that he would never be involved in any action, and didn?t relish him doing harm to others ? whoever they were

  That is pretty much a normal anxiety for parents about their children. Police also don?t want to do harm to others, but many are forced into it, aren?t they? Entering the military believing it is a good career and that you will never be called upon to fight is foolhardy. There is no other need for military than to defend against others.

  I read a book, many years ago, investigating what ?defence? really was, which came to the obvious conclusion that no such thing exists or has ever existed

  Everything that was ever created, including medical services and gas masks, that might have been considered as having a defensive purpose, simply allows offence to be resumed earlier and more efficiently and is designed specifically to bring that effect about

  All people feel they are ?defending? their interests in international conflict (or even inter personal conflicts) and choose to express this ?defence? by attacking whomever they consider their enemy

  A Prime Minister of the UK, Lloyd George once said that ? men will only stop warring when they have outlawed war in their own hearts?)

  He meant individuals

  If you are prepared to kill another human being (for whatever reason ? there CANNOT be a justifiable one) your victim, inescapably, must be viewed as terminally less valuable than your self

  What would the alternative be, to just surrender to terror? Do you relish your female loved ones wearing burkhas and facing beheading publicly for wearing makeup? Not be allowed an education or contributing to society in any manner other than having babies to be handed over to dictators for their use? When someone is coming at you shooting and wanting you dead, do you just stand up and give him an easier target? Or, do you shoot back and try to kill him first?

  Well - you (and perhaps the rest of the world) must make your choice and I?ll make mine

  This comment infers and perhaps asserts that the violent retaliatory (probably nationalistic and politically loaded) behaviour you advocate, contains a satisfactory solution to the horrendous realities you mention, which, of course it doesn?t and never ever has done ? beginning with Cain

  Incidentally, you are converting war (or the threat of war, tyranny, oppression and/or despotism etc) into a personal attack on yourself, which it never ever is, although the real threat of damage and/or death is as real

  There is no doubt about the extreme depth and intensity of the actual threat to people?s well being, physical or otherwise, that the warring factions of this planet wield

  Neither is there the slightest doubt about the progressively worsening character of violence, of all kinds, in the world and also of violent thought and heart attitudes in the individual

  If you place yourself nationalistically in this scenario, don?t you have to accept the reality of the possible cessation of your own life?

  Realistically, yes. Everyone entering military service and not knowing this is only fooling themselves.

  If you get in a boxing ring you are liable to get punched on the nose, and you DO have the choice

  Modern military is also voluntary. You do have a choice there too.

  Don?t miss the point here please ? You can make this neutral choice ONLY for yourself, not for any group, and clearly in the knowledge that it is NOT going to solve any military, political and/or nationalistic problems (or any for yourself personally either)

  The world is simply going to continue on its long embedded catastrophic course with its irresponsible behaviour patterns almost indefinitely

  Historical evidence guarantees that the vast majority of members of mankind will ALWAYS choose a retaliatory form of behaviour (in almost any circumstance ? not necessarily just war) and there is NEVER a point where a distinct and continuous choice towards peaceful co-existence is EVER made

  It?s my belief that God views everyone (apart from JC) living or dead, as being PRECISELY equal and equally valuable, and so certainly cannot approve of either someone shooting down a helicopter or those within the military helicopter

  Considering the scope of his history, mankind is certainly not EVER going to stop this sad activity

  Neither of us can speak for God, but I wonder if he views that one bent on destroying others for their own personal gain and so equal? Didn?t he have the ancient Israelites time and again fight and kill many who weren?t peaceful and would not worship him, but worshipped false gods? If he truly wants mankind to actually get along, he could make believe closer to the same and wouldn?t have set the example on how to deal with enemies. Jesus taught peace and love, but wouldn?t coming to the aid of oppressed friends and fighting to free them be an act of love also? Didn?t Jesus state at John 15:13 that no one had a greater love than to lay down his life for a friend? We can?t all be crucified for mankind like he was, but those of us who have the will, can fight for their freedom.

  If you know someone extremely well, I feel that it is very reasonable to be able to freely ?speak for them?

  The nature of your wondering about God?s views infers that you feel your concept of justice is superior to His

  You might think, along with many other people, that Hitler might already be perfectly condemned by God, and yet Paul?s pre conversion attitude of mind was extremely similar to his in every way

  If you begin advocating behavioural examples from the Israelite experience with God, you begin to thrust Jesus? sacrifice aside (as the WTS did in their interpretation of the ?law? on blood)

  As you know, he fulfilled the ?law? and succeeded, by his life course and behaviour, in putting it aside which means it can NEVER be used again in any respect ? except that its central principles always apply, as exemplified by Jesus

  There is not the slightest indication that God is on ANYBODY?S side at this time

  Your idea of Jesus coming to his friends aid in a retaliatory fashion, perhaps carrying a rifle, is how people erroneously, using your quote of John 15:13 that ?no one has a greater love than to lay down his life for a friend?, ?see? ?Jesus? in the soldiers who fought in WW2

  Surely this is something different ? this is being ready to kill for a friend isn?t it?

  Do you really believe Jesus would have even contemplated this type of behaviour ?

  The trick is to choose not become a part of it ? even by speech

  Idealistically, this would be true. But, in reality, it doesn?t work. What part did over 2600 people play on September 11, 2001? What part did possibly millions of Shiites and Kurds play over many years in Iraq? Throughout history, innocent people have been needlessly slaughtered and it was only stopped by men and women standing up to and fighting, to the death, if need be, of those doing the slaughtering. Is it perfect or preferential? I don?t think so. But is it loving? Ask those that were saved and given their lives back and freed from tyranny.

  You really surely aren?t now going to attempt to convince me that the latest supposedly significant piece of horrendous violence (to the recipient, all violence is significant, whenever and wherever it is committed) in the history of the world - 9 / 11 - justifies your seeing Jesus in a retaliatory role and advocating this approach to anyone who cares to listen ? are you ?

  Are you really trying to advance the ludicrously facile argument that all or any of the retaliation which has ever happened in the entire pitiful history of mankind has actually ?stopped? oppression, tyranny, murderous exploitation etc ?

  Singing KumBaya and Give Peace a Chance are nice, but they don?t stop tyrants bent on dominating and harming others.

  What then will you be singing in yours and historically so many others, already failed attempt to wrestle the world into peaceful co-existence ? onwards christian?????? soldiers ?
• 
  31

  13 soldiers dead!!!

  by petespal2002 in

  1. social
  2. current
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  I am amazed that so many responses here indicate partisan feelings, which amazement is probably the result of my coming to the realisation some considerable time ago that mankind as a whole has never EVER dealt satisfactorily with its sad tendency to violence, and I believe will never The ability demonstrably is absent

  Sadly, this is true. There are those throughout history that just want more than they are entitled too and they force others to fight to keep what they have. With tyrants, you surrender or fight them, no other choices. Convince them to stop building weapons and attacking others, you may solve the problem.

  Of course ? previous to about 200 years ago everything, including war, was very local and therefore very much more personal, (but if you were in a field up the road you might not have even heard it) but the behaviour you advocate certainly did not and still does not ever begin to dissuade armies, nations or factions from making ever more deadly and efficient weapons - in fact it stimulates this very activity as you are now stimulated

  You advocate identifying yourself so closely, with who you consider to be the enemy, by your identical behaviour, and to the observer the difference is actually undiscernible

  Yes clearly there IS a choice

  Jesus advocated surrender

  Will you say that your choice is superior to his ?

  expressed the usual anxiety and fear that the army is ok for a career and the hope that he would never be involved in any action, and didn?t relish him doing harm to others ? whoever they were

  That is pretty much a normal anxiety for parents about their children. Police also don?t want to do harm to others, but many are forced into it, aren?t they? Entering the military believing it is a good career and that you will never be called upon to fight is foolhardy. There is no other need for military than to defend against others.

  I read a book, many years ago, investigating what ?defence? really was, which came to the obvious conclusion that no such thing exists or has ever existed

  Everything that was ever created, including medical services and gas masks, that might have been considered as having a defensive purpose, simply allows offence to be resumed earlier and more efficiently and is designed specifically to bring that effect about

  All people feel they are ?defending? their interests in international conflict (or even inter personal conflicts) and choose to express this ?defence? by attacking whomever they consider their enemy

  A Prime Minister of the UK, Lloyd George once said that ? men will only stop warring when they have outlawed war in their own hearts?)

  He meant individuals

  If you are prepared to kill another human being (for whatever reason ? there CANNOT be a justifiable one) your victim, inescapably, must be viewed as terminally less valuable than your self

  What would the alternative be, to just surrender to terror? Do you relish your female loved ones wearing burkhas and facing beheading publicly for wearing makeup? Not be allowed an education or contributing to society in any manner other than having babies to be handed over to dictators for their use? When someone is coming at you shooting and wanting you dead, do you just stand up and give him an easier target? Or, do you shoot back and try to kill him first?

  Well - you (and perhaps the rest of the world) must make your choice and I?ll make mine

  This comment infers and perhaps asserts that the violent retaliatory (probably nationalistic and politically loaded) behaviour you advocate, contains a satisfactory solution to the horrendous realities you mention, which, of course it doesn?t and never ever has done ? beginning with Cain

  Incidentally, you are converting war (or the threat of war, tyranny, oppression and/or despotism etc) into a personal attack on yourself, which it never ever is, although the real threat of damage and/or death is as real

  There is no doubt about the extreme depth and intensity of the actual threat to people?s well being, physical or otherwise, that the warring factions of this planet wield

  Neither is there the slightest doubt about the progressively worsening character of violence, of all kinds, in the world and also of violent thought and heart attitudes in the individual

  If you place yourself nationalistically in this scenario, don?t you have to accept the reality of the possible cessation of your own life?

  Realistically, yes. Everyone entering military service and not knowing this is only fooling themselves.

  If you get in a boxing ring you are liable to get punched on the nose, and you DO have the choice

  Modern military is also voluntary. You do have a choice there too.

  Don?t miss the point here please ? You can make this neutral choice ONLY for yourself, not for any group, and clearly in the knowledge that it is NOT going to solve any military, political and/or nationalistic problems (or any for yourself personally either)

  The world is simply going to continue on its long embedded catastrophic course with its irresponsible behaviour patterns almost indefinitely

  Historical evidence guarantees that the vast majority of members of mankind will ALWAYS choose a retaliatory form of behaviour (in almost any circumstance ? not necessarily just war) and there is NEVER a point where a distinct and continuous choice towards peaceful co-existence is EVER made

  It?s my belief that God views everyone (apart from JC) living or dead, as being PRECISELY equal and equally valuable, and so certainly cannot approve of either someone shooting down a helicopter or those within the military helicopter

  Considering the scope of his history, mankind is certainly not EVER going to stop this sad activity

  Neither of us can speak for God, but I wonder if he views that one bent on destroying others for their own personal gain and so equal? Didn?t he have the ancient Israelites time and again fight and kill many who weren?t peaceful and would not worship him, but worshipped false gods? If he truly wants mankind to actually get along, he could make believe closer to the same and wouldn?t have set the example on how to deal with enemies. Jesus taught peace and love, but wouldn?t coming to the aid of oppressed friends and fighting to free them be an act of love also? Didn?t Jesus state at John 15:13 that no one had a greater love than to lay down his life for a friend? We can?t all be crucified for mankind like he was, but those of us who have the will, can fight for their freedom.

  If you know someone extremely well, I feel that it is very reasonable to be able to freely ?speak for them?

  The nature of your wondering about God?s views infers that you feel your concept of justice is superior to His

  You might think, along with many other people, that Hitler might already be perfectly condemned by God, and yet Paul?s pre conversion attitude of mind was extremely similar to his in every way

  If you begin advocating behavioural examples from the Israelite experience with God, you begin to thrust Jesus? sacrifice aside (as the WTS did in their interpretation of the ?law? on blood)

  As you know, he fulfilled the ?law? and succeeded, by his life course and behaviour, in putting it aside which means it can NEVER be used again in any respect ? except that its central principles always apply, as exemplified by Jesus

  There is not the slightest indication that God is on ANYBODY?S side at this time

  Your idea of Jesus coming to his friends aid in a retaliatory fashion, perhaps carrying a rifle, is how people erroneously, using your quote of John 15:13 that ?no one has a greater love than to lay down his life for a friend?, ?see? ?Jesus? in the soldiers who fought in WW2

  Surely this is something different ? this is being ready to kill for a friend isn?t it?

  Do you really believe Jesus would have even contemplated this type of behaviour ?

  The trick is to choose not become a part of it ? even by speech

  Idealistically, this would be true. But, in reality, it doesn?t work. What part did over 2600 people play on September 11, 2001? What part did possibly millions of Shiites and Kurds play over many years in Iraq? Throughout history, innocent people have been needlessly slaughtered and it was only stopped by men and women standing up to and fighting, to the death, if need be, of those doing the slaughtering. Is it perfect or preferential? I don?t think so. But is it loving? Ask those that were saved and given their lives back and freed from tyranny.

  You really surely aren?t now going to attempt to convince me that the latest supposedly significant piece of horrendous violence (to the recipient, all violence is significant, whenever and wherever it is committed) in the history of the world - 9 / 11 - justifies your seeing Jesus in a retaliatory role and advocating this approach to anyone who cares to listen ? are you ?

  Are you really trying to advance the ludicrously facile argument that all or any of the retaliation which has ever happened in the entire pitiful history of mankind has actually ?stopped? oppression, tyranny, murderous exploitation etc ?

  Singing KumBaya and Give Peace a Chance are nice, but they don?t stop tyrants bent on dominating and harming others.

  What then will you be singing in yours and historically so many others, already failed attempt to wrestle the world into peaceful co-existence ? onwards christian?????? soldiers ?
• 
  31

  13 soldiers dead!!!

  by petespal2002 in

  1. social
  2. current
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  I am amazed that so many responses here indicate partisan feelings, which amazement is probably the result of my coming to the realisation some considerable time ago that mankind as a whole has never EVER dealt satisfactorily with its sad tendency to violence, and I believe will never The ability demonstrably is absent

  Today the lady (who runs a dance aerobic troupe I play keyboard for on a Monday evening) showed me a picture of her grandson ? in the British army ? him very proud - and immediately expressed the usual anxiety and fear that the army is ok for a career and the hope that he would never be involved in any action, and didn?t relish him doing harm to others ? whoever they were

  If you are prepared to kill another human being (for whatever reason ? there CANNOT be a justifiable one) your victim, inescapably, must be viewed as terminally less valuable than your self

  If you place yourself nationalistically in this scenario, don?t you have to accept the reality of the possible cessation of your own life?

  If you get in a boxing ring you are liable to get punched on the nose, and you DO have the choice

  It?s my belief that God views everyone (apart from JC) living or dead, as being PRECISELY equal and equally valuable, and so certainly cannot approve of either someone shooting down a helicopter or those within the military helicopter

  Considering the scope of his history, mankind is certainly not EVER going to stop this sad activity

  The trick is to choose not become a part of it ? even by speech

  (I?m prepared to continue this theme)

  Stephen
• 
  18

  Is There Anything That You Are Afraid To Talk About?

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one thing for now that i'm afraid to talk about is who i really am on this forum.there are various reasons for this fear and i suppose that it means that the wt.society still has some control over me.. i really want to open up and reveal my real name and address and picture and family and history etc.and connect with others who may know me and are on this forum.

  one day i will,but now is not that day.. is there anything that you are afraid to talk about?.

  blueblades

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  Having been so much more than a keen discusser of just about anything that ever came up with just about anybody for such a long time now - Would someone please enlighten me as to how I could become harmed or disadvantaged by revealing my identity

  I am a solo individual with no one in the WTS for them to work on

  stephen is not my real name but I have left my e amail address which has nothing to connect with my real identity in it

  But if there are any suitable mature-ish (at least mentally) female jazz singers or keen wannabees who would like free musical coaching and to participate in a very long musical (busking) tour of France and Spain next year using my very large campervan - in this community - residing in the UK- especially in the south - I'll supply my phone number and address (please see my profile)

  Now I'm just going to hide in my bass case

  stephen

  stephen/harmy/stan/Lionel/albaf/lionliz/david/nats
• 
  29

  Everlasting life on a Paradise earth..myth or reality?

  by shotgun in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  everlasting life on a paradise earth.

  this hope permeates the very being of every jw.

  does it mention everlasting life on a paradise earth?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  So just what WAS God's purpose in creating this place where we all live?

  stephen
• 
  50

  How many poet's are among us?

  by codeblue in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been thinking about that lately.

  the last thread i started, william penwell wrote an excellent poem, which i enjoyed tremendously.. i have been writing poetry since i was 8 years old....i also write songs.. so how many of you are poets/and or song writers?

  have any of you published your works and if so....any help on finding a publisher?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  I have several poems published (which is easy if you buy the book) and also have a collection ready for publishing but - it costs! (and who will buy?)

  someone told me it's possible to earn money reading poems - your own - I guess - will have to look into that

  anyway

  here's more

  White Swan Dunstable Sunday Mornings

  Sad faces in the pub

  reflections of deep intent

  Glints and shadows of sound

  cavort amongst conversations

  muted in their shout

  to be heard

  above minstrels

  strained in a clump

  for their joint release

  Inventions supreme

  tribes strangers

  into silence

  memories

  and wonder

  Shy applause

  an accolade

  of conquest

  concurrence

  with discipline

  and moods

  preconceived

  on yesterdays

  Such free delight

  ensconced

  in a wild world

  has banal hues

  and intensity turns thin

  amid external deprivation

  The opposites appear

  and not melodiously

  Excellence becomes

  selfish mediocrity

  And yet we play alone

  Music is of now

  And fades

  Into silent echoes

  Eventually

  Lionel Harmsworth (stephen)
• 
  50

  How many poet's are among us?

  by codeblue in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been thinking about that lately.

  the last thread i started, william penwell wrote an excellent poem, which i enjoyed tremendously.. i have been writing poetry since i was 8 years old....i also write songs.. so how many of you are poets/and or song writers?

  have any of you published your works and if so....any help on finding a publisher?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  Sorry Lisa - Lionel Harmsworth is my real name - well - almost

  This one's about jazz

  See you down the road

  where we?ll play it all

  It?ll be a gas

  also a ball

  and cool

  where everyone has

  flowing harmonies

  and fecund chords

  enticing melodies

  and moving words

  See you down the road

  The evening will be mellow

  pregnant from the day

  of sun

  in which a fellow

  can get things done

  and be on his way

  See you down the road

  where the tune

  in it?s glory

  echoes in the moon

  and becomes another story

  of listeners who dream

  of days gone by

  and the sky

  becomes what they mean

  But not only sorrow

  is their mind

  Sensuous hopes for tomorrow

  will help things unwind

  leaving things behind

  behind

  See you down the road

  where we?ll love to play

  on another day

  Somewhere down the street

  we?ll meet

  and say

  it was a good day

  (there's more!)
• 
  50

  How many poet's are among us?

  by codeblue in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been thinking about that lately.

  the last thread i started, william penwell wrote an excellent poem, which i enjoyed tremendously.. i have been writing poetry since i was 8 years old....i also write songs.. so how many of you are poets/and or song writers?

  have any of you published your works and if so....any help on finding a publisher?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  Escape Xmas

  Escape Xmas (Schmexmas) for a while at my pad

  You might find it's not that bad

  Nowadays X doesn't happen here

  Except of course for the wine and beer

  So please come before or on the day

  Or even spend boxing evening away

  Go out to your car and then hop in

  And drive to my place and just drop in

  At the risk of sounding completely soppy

  I'd like to invite you over for coffee

  You don't have to plan or dress up fine

  You can come and visit me anytime

  But please phone up before you come

  Just to make sure that I?m at home

  I won?t be in London or Bainbury (wherever that is)

  But I might just be up at Sainsbury

  We can talk about life and be social

  It might prevent us being parochial

  We could play cards or scrabble or watch TV

  Or just sit and talk and have biscuits and tea

  Or go to the gym and lose some weight

  And go swimming or training I think its great

  To go for a picnic down by the sea

  Or have a Barbecue just you?se and me

  Or cycle out somewhere amongst the trees

  (I?m just dying to see your knees)

  Or walk in the forest in days of sun

  Or even maybe go out for a run (maybe not)

  Or do some computer work or sing a song

  Or even play darts or perhaps mah jong (I?ve always wanted to)

  A social life is our big need

  And could help stop us going to seed

  Most of our lives are just spent rushing

  And it always helps to be discussing

  So come to my pad and have a rest

  And you?ll regain your for life zest

  And if you don?t want to respond to this rhyme

  Well ? stay at home ? but have a good time

  Lionel Harmsworth
• 
  30

  JWD Maps Europe

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and one for the folks in europe.

  i know you're out there.. please post the country you are in.

  i will do my best to get you as close to where you live as possible - well in the same country.. as you can see we have a ways to go.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  stephen

  Hi Lady Lee

  Please add my name to the map when you next update

  Many thanks - what a good idea

  Stephen