not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.
that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.
so, why are there so few of them online?
You could probably describe that as being apathetic towards the JWs.
Probably kinder though to say that a lot of XJWs have a low level of interest in JWism in general.
Like you say - occasionally they'll watch a youtube, they'll keep an eye on forums, keep track of things, but not much else.
not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.
that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.
so, why are there so few of them online?
But that's the point isn't?
I suspect that the vast majority of US residents have absolutely no idea about who or what Reveal News is
we're in the bubble - so we know
but apparently even the majority of people with us in that bubble haven't bothered to listen to the Reveal News item - what does that tell you ??
not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.
that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.
so, why are there so few of them online?
haha - firstly I thought EVERYONE was 'online' nowadays - OK, well slight exaggeration, but...
I think what you really mean is ... why are there so few X/JWs engaged in this bubble with us here?
Because I do think it's a bubble - the OP gives some figures, and I would estimate that there's around 20,000 people in the bubble
But wait, 20,000 out of 1,000,000 is actually very good! Thats like 1-in-50!
YouTube views and Soundcould listens are not realy an accurate measurement - but still....
Faith-to-Faithless - with a 'named' personality chairing has only 8,400 views
(Oh, and they've even spelt her name wrong on the video)
https://youtu.be/qVM1prHnocI
Enquête: The Kingdom's Dirty Secrets - has even less, with 8,000 views
And that was the English language version of the Canadian CBC ICI Tele television programme - so big apparently that the WT had letters read out at the local congregations!
https://youtu.be/_AJPHGMt9JI
Reveal News: Secrets of the Watchtower gets 5,900 listens
Broadcast on various NPR stations across the US
https://soundcloud.com/thisisreveal/secrets-of-the-watchtower
SO the hard truth also seems to be that MOST of the 20,000 or so XJW's in bubble aren't even bothering to view/listen to non-JW produced stuff regarding the JWs -hmmm kinda makes you wonder what hope there is!
Like all good things, there are exceptions that prove the rule:
Kim Mikey - Top 3 YouTubes = Total 616,547 views
John Cedars - Top 3 YouTubes = Total 330,439 view
Christian Katja - Top 3 YouTubes = Total 147,870 views
But wait - why are current and news-worthy JW related youtubes from Faith-to-Faithless, CBC TV and Reveal NOT getting those 100,000+ viewing figures???
The JWs are a small religion, the XJWs are even smaller, and the XJW Bubble is even smaller..... and remember
steve2: JW organization loses significantly more Witnesses to apathy than to apostasy.
And apathy breeds apathy amongst XJWs
anybody have any ideas where they are going with the "new light" they have been pushing last week and this week?
for instance in this weeks study article one section reads:.
in years gone by, we believed that jehovah became displeased with his people because they did not have a zealous share in the preaching work during world war i. we concluded that for this reason, jehovah allowed babylon the great to take them captive for a short time.
Also, it's an insult to those conscientious objectors that were shot, in Britain at least, during WWI for not joining the war.
Can you explain more please?
I understood that although CO's, in some places where treated terribly, and died as a result of that treatment - they where not 'shot' or 'executed'.
Although there was a gray area due to CO's being able to prove they where CO's - there would seem to be a clear contrast with those who were NOT CO's. but instead DID join the military and take up arms, but where then court-martialled for desertion - and executed by firing squad.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/history/conscientious-objectors-in-their-own-words
From March 1916, military service was compulsory for all single men in England, Scotland and Wales aged 18 to 41, except those who were in jobs essential to the war effort, the sole support of dependents, medically unfit, or ‘those who could show a conscientious objection’.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01xl7mk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_at_Dawn_Memorial
Awake 22 August 1982, page 11 - “Lest We Forget . . . ”
In the March 14, 1982, issue of the Manchester Guardian Weekly, the following appeared among the letters to the editor, on page 2, under the title of “Inhuman Acts on Conscientious Objectors”:
“I was very interested to read Harry Whewell’s article ‘. . . Nor the years condemn’ (February 21). In it he mentions plans to turn the cells of Richmond Castle, Yorkshire, into a permanent memorial to the conscientious objectors of the first world war.
“The treatment he describes of those intrepid men reminds me of that meted out to my friend Frank Platt, who died in Mill Hill, London in 1974. He was one of those who were transported to France and then submitted to the most horrendous torture in an attempt to make him take up arms against his fellow man and fellow Christians.
“He was given ‘shot drill’ that required him to carry a 30 lb weight at arm’s length and repeatedly put it down and pick it up again until he finally fell exhausted to the ground. This after three months of a bread and water diet. For having collapsed he was sentenced to another 18 days of shot drill.
“When this had terminated he was bashed in the face several times and then tied day after day by the shoulders, hands and feet to a beam in a tiny storeroom from 8 am until 8 pm with an hour’s break for cold rice and water. From there he was transferred to the ‘Black Hole of Le Havre’, where some prisoners were even beaten to death. Fortunately Frank survived the experience and kept his integrity.
“When I faced the same issue in 1950 things had greatly changed. I received a six months’ prison sentence. But as your writer correctly states many other countries are still way behind on understanding this issue of conscience. It is an international phenomenon of those who would sow peace and love. Let it not be forgotten that there were also thousands of German conscientious objectors, many of them Jehovah’s Witnesses like Frank Platt, who spent more than a decade in the concentration camps. Many of them also breathed their last in those infamous places. But the victory was theirs.
“Eric Beveridge, 25 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, N.Y. 11201.”
i know this has been discussed over the years on this forum, but i just had to post this again!.
it seems that the popular fad amongst the "spiritual" ones in the local circuits is to home school their children instead of sending them to school.. now to clarify, we are in a very nice area of semi rural australia .
one with very community minded, and strong family values.
Oh, it's the trendy thing to do
Was featured last year in a big article in the glossy Sunday Times magazine - Sunday 24 July 2016 print edition - click here
https://www.enjoyeducation.co.uk
i went to visit my parents recently, and my mom went for the kh.
well...she told me that the visiting speaker from "po-dunk" usa, related a factoid.
of course it was "da troof" to her, but my demonic, critical-thinking mind started dissecting the account.
Hmmm
If you're in the US, then as Xanthippe says above - the US had their first clean air act introduced then: The Air Pollution Control Act of 1955
BUT, of course, the very reason it was introduced was because of low air quality before 1955 (!!) - ie the 1948 Donora Smog
Could it though be a mash-up of the following??....
Awake 22 April 1971, page 20 - Can Man Solve the Problem?
A few streams, a lake here and there, the air over a few cities—that is the extent of success man has had in trying to reverse the disastrous trend. What of the overall situation?
Facing the overall situation realistically, there is little ground for optimism. For example, look what happened in New York city. Back in 1955 its air pollution commissioner predicted: “In 10 years, our city will be a good place to inhale in.” A researcher also predicted: “By 1965 the air breathed by a man crossing 42nd St. will be as fresh as the air in a Swiss mountain pass.”
Persons living in New York city today would call those predictions ridiculous. New York air is so heavily polluted now that much of the time it is rated either ‘unsatisfactory’ or ‘unhealthy.’ Those optimistic predictions were not based on reality.
I understand that the above Awake! was a 'special' with articles in the whole issue devoted to the front page theme: "Earth's Future - Garbage Dump or Garden Home?"
BUT the only public talk outline reference to the magazine issue is in the introduction of Public Talk 14 - and it isn't really related
14: A CLEAN PEOPLE HONORS JEHOVAH
PHYSICAL CLEANNESS IS ASSOCIATED WITH SPIRITUAL ACCEPTABLENESS
Jehovah is a holy God (it-1 1127 para 17)
He is profaned by uncleanness, physical or spiritual (Isa 1:16)
Israelites had to wash themselves and their clothing for awesome assembly at Mount Sinai (Ex 19:10, 11)
Aaron and his sons had to wash with water from large copper basin before serving in the tent of meeting (Ex 29:4; 30:18, 19)
Cleanness in the Israelite camp was required by the holy God (De 23:10-14; g81 5/8 14; g71 4/22 28)
this means that for every 6 publishers, there is a disfellowshipped person.
this statistic doesn't take into account all of the kids that become/removed as publishers and receive a similar treatment from their family.
conclusion: jehovah's witnesses do break up families.
darkspilver: I like your logic... I'm adding this thread to my notes!
cool, you too.
I think the broadbrush 'take-home' from this is two-fold:
Firstly, as was highlighted in the OP - is that there is a significant number of disfellowshipped ones still alive, particularly compared to current active publishers, around 1-in-6.
I suspect gb2.0 are worried about this, and is perhaps why they're pushing limiting association with these ones - BUT also consider....
Secondly, compare the ratio of baptisms with apparent disfellowshippings
These numbers also don't bode well for WT either...
this means that for every 6 publishers, there is a disfellowshipped person.
this statistic doesn't take into account all of the kids that become/removed as publishers and receive a similar treatment from their family.
conclusion: jehovah's witnesses do break up families.
slimboyfat - yes, there's ALOT of unknowns, I was just trying to replicated how StephaneLaliberte worked it out.
you calculated the third Reinstated at the very end while I calculated it every year.
StephaneLaliberte - Ah right, I see you're trying to do a completely different calculation to me, but that's cool - I was just doing disfellowshippings as per the post title
Because there are too many unknowns, I believe it is safest to go with the simplist calculation to work out total disfellowshippings.
Reinstatements - as I understand it would take at least 12 months before someone is reinstated, and they would therefore be included in the following year/s publisher number - therefore you shouldn't make allowance for them being reinstated (ie being reinstated with in the same service year)
Anyway, cool question to ask is:
How many disfellowshipped people could there be ALIVE today? 1,482,272
Although that figure does not make allowance for people being disfellowshipped more than once, so in reality the figure would be slightly less, BUT it also assumes there were NO disfellowshipped people prior to 1981 who are still alive - so the two sides probably balance out?
I worked the figure out using a crude death rate of 8.1 deaths per 1,000 per year (and that's compounded!!!)
So, I think it works out as follows:
this means that for every 6 publishers, there is a disfellowshipped person.
this statistic doesn't take into account all of the kids that become/removed as publishers and receive a similar treatment from their family.
conclusion: jehovah's witnesses do break up families.
How are you working that out?
I have a 'base-line' to use for 1993 using the following
Watchtower 1 April 1994, page 16, paragraph 8
Each year about 40,000 individuals are disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s organization.
I make a total of 1,708,635 total disfellowshipped.
Using your one third reinstated (569,544), but ignoring being disfellowshipped twice etc
I end up with 1,139,091 remaining disfellowshipped.
And, of course, due to dying, the actual number of disfellowshipped ones actually alive currently would be less
at least, that is how i see it... the article "the judge of all the earth always does what is right".
paragraph 6 & 7 .
6 consider the experience of willi diehl.
Hey tepidpoultry
that's next Sunday at the Holy Trinity in Dalston, London - Sunday 5 February 2017 - annual service in honor of Grimaldi
