More AMA Answers....
Have you considered going public with who you are and become an exjw activist? Also are there any apostates in the central american countries that you have since become aware of?
No way.
I highly respect Cedars and his work. I watch his videos and I learn from them. But for now I want to stay underwater and try to slowly help some out. I made a huge mistake and outright blasted my mother with the facts and she disowned me. She has been a Witness for 47 years. So with my wife I went very very slow. I read on here questions to ask and methods to use. Slowly.
It worked! Now I want to do the same with others I know.
As far as apostates in Central America, I don't know of any. I know some who have faded, but I have no idea if they are apostate.
I bet you know to speak Spanish.....so I will ask this. There is a very active Facebook page in Spanish its name is Crecer como Testigo de Jehova (something like:'growing up as Jehova's Witness) There are a lot of opinions and debates exposed for the Spanish speaking community... everything can be anonymous we understand... Thanks for your great story we hope from hearing from you. Your story will have a great impact to the people living in Spanish speaking countries Gracias.
Si claro. Con tan solo que no me identifican. Hay pocos norteamericanos en esos paises y soy conocido.
Yes of course. As long as they don't identify me. There are very few North Americans in those countries and I am known there.
I will see how to join that page.
I don't remember the details of the 95 generation teaching change. I do remember the overlapping teaching. Was that 2008 or 10. How did that hit you?
It was 1995. We studied it on Monday morning in the missionary home as is the custom. (Bethel homes have their WT study at night). There were 13 of us, missionaries from Canada, US, Spain, and Mexico.
It was an awkward study. No one said anything against what was written. But afterward we all talked about it in private conversation. We tried to smooth it over saying that it's obvious we are in the last days. I had always decided to leave my assignment if the end didn't come by 2000.
At this point, I just have my sister and brother-in-law still mentally in, and my best friend who left with me still has his parents mentally in. Both of us successfully faded and our families aren't shunning either of us yet. What do you think would be the best way to slowly chip away at our families without triggering the "apostate alarms?"
They can't know you are "guiding them." That is tough for me to do especially since I love to debate and I have problems controlling my counter-points I tend to raise my voice. So you have to ask questions that don't raise alarms. And you have to figure out what their triggers are. What matters to them. For some it's the lack of protection for children. For others it's the hypocrisy of the Organization. Listen a lot while not letting them preach to you. My wife previously became very angry when I criticized the Governing Body. So I stopped that. Since we have small children I started talking about safety. About once a week maybe. She would talk about it also. One day I asked, "If you found out for sure that the organization was lax on safety for children, would it make a difference to you?" She said yes it would. THEN I showed her the Australian Royal Commission. She watched hours of it. So make sure that you find out what is really important to them first.
Another example: Suppose your family is talking about earthquakes and how there are more and more. Don't blast them with earthquake data. Ask them, "What If you found out that the rate of earthquakes has remained constant in the past 100 years? Would that be a big deal to you?"
Let THEM make the connection. Remember you already have a strike against you. You have faded. So they already likely view you with suspicion. They are on the defence.
Recently I was taking to my brother in law who still attends. He was saying how the elders are not fit to judge people and how some of the doctrines don't make sense. Then he said, "All I know is that Jehovah is God's name and that he is God."
What question would you ask him? I asked him, "What IF Jehovah is not Gods name?"
He sat for literally a full minute in silence. Then he changed the subject. I left it alone. Little by little.
One final thing I want to tell you. None of these questions or methods I am saying are mine. None.
I made huge mistakes with my family when I first was waking up. Then after reading on this subreddit and jehovahs-witness.com for years I learned how to help someone out of a cult. I also read Steve Hassan's books. And even still I get too excited when I talk with family and friends that are still in and I go too far and then of course I become their enemy. So go slow. And don't think I came up with any of these methods because I didn't. I learned all these methods on this forum.
Good luck and keep me posted. You can PM me if you prefer. Try to remember how conversations with your family went and let us know. Your experience will help us also who are trying with our families. We are trying to help others out of a cult! Let's do it!
You asked: "What do you mean 'funkiest running congregation story'?" - The congregations were even more patriarchal than English. The elders didn't really try to hide that they ran the congregation as they see fit. It didn't matter if that ran contrary to the stated rules. They started the congregations and it was going to do what they wanted. That's what I mean by funky.
For example, all counsel was personal opinion and we'll outside of their jurisdiction. I'd tell my dad who was an elder about these things. He'd always say they're imperfect men, but I've never heard of someone doing that before.
Oh I see. Yes, I can think of several examples. One is that the elders required publishers to get permission from them to have a party. And if they gave permission, then the elders would be there to supervise. They would control the music and in some congs would ban songs in English. Also. No slow dancing allowed unless you were married. In the rural areas the elders banned alcohol. Also, when a brother became interested in a sister then the elders would meet with him, then her, then them both. They would also counsel the sisters on dress. If a small group went to a lake or the beach, the elders would require that all sisters wear a dark t-shirt over their bathing suit and also wear shorts.
Yep, lots of rules.
Sadly, [my family are] a little too long time indoctrinated for 'what if' socratic questions. Closest we got was the ARC abuse write up online with my mom (BBC news as I recall). She came back with a trump-style "fake news the world is in the power of the wicked one" response a day later. If people want to believe, they will, and there's not a thing you can do to stop it.
True. Some in my family are shunning me, but my wife, to my surprise, woke up. We are still trying little by little to reach the "authentic person" behind our family members that still talk to us.
I was an Elder for 4.5 years for the age of 27-32. Born and raised in the truth, I hid the fact I was gay. I knew I was gay when I got baptized. But never did anything about it. I was the "perfect example" in the cong. After being appointed as an elder, I started seeing guys, late at night. In the USA how common is this type of situation? Hiding the fact you are gay or trying to live 2 lives.
I think the percentage of gay people is the same in each country, some just hide it. Unfortunately I didn't help those in my circuit. I just repeated whatever the Watchtower said. We did find out that several were living a double life. In Central America even outside the organization it is frowned upon though.
Here in the US I know several JW non-practicing gays, and I know some who were found out for having a boyfriend in secret. So no, you are not alone. Even in Bethel some brothers have secret boyfriends.
What do you feel about many people who speak out on having mental health problems because of the religion?
They are correct. The organization causes horrible depression and anxiety.
I was sucked in via door-to-door with the 1984 magazine claiming the 1914 generation would not die. Woke up in 2009 and never looked back. I hear snippets from other exjw sites and the many local exjws in my area about so many changes I hardly recognise it as something I once belonged to. My youngest child went to a JW wedding at the weekend and got love bombed. Although both newlyweds work at the same office as my daughter and they all do the same hours the talk encouraged the wife to be keeping the house clean and cooking her husband's favourite meal and new hubby was instructed to buy random bunches of flowers to show his appreciation for her hard work in the home! Clearly the misogyny hasn't changed. Lol
Misogyny. That's the word I was looking for. Thank you. Once in my assignment during the WT study in the congregation, there was a photo of a husband doing the dishes. One of the comments FROM AN ELDER was, "Well that doesn't apply here in Central America."
I've heard a lot about demonism in Latin America and the brothers not being able to leave behind spiritistic practices. Have you had any experience with this?
They all have crazy demon stories. I tried to get them to stop but they wouldn't. One of my friends there insisted that his grandmother's house was demonized and he needed the brothers to help him get on and out of the house since the demons would hold him in there with a cold breeze. The elders also mischaracterize mental illness as demon influence. I have known them to check a person's possessions to see if some have dubious origin, in their opinion.
Did you ever see people die from refusing a blood transfusion. It is my understanding, albeit anecdotally, that this can be more common in developing nations, due to lack of resources that might be more common in western medicine.
The Branch never asked to me to go on the HLC or on Patient Visitation. They usually asked need-greaters to do that. As a CO I didn't have the time, also need-greaters usually had businesses and more local clout to deal with doctors, if that makes sense. I would hear of cases but I personally never saw one. I would always visit sick ones in the hospital but only once was the blood issue involved. The government somehow provided erythropoietin (EPO) for free and saved the patient. Since I know other missionaries in other countries they have told me they personally have seen Witnesses die in refusing blood. They were proud of them.
