Posts by darkspilver

23

Do you know anything about Live Kingdom Hall?

by Hecce in

i learned recently about this link that allows for a person to listen or watch the meetings at the kh that have contracted the service.

you have the option to watch the meeting live or just listen.

there will be a recording of the audio available until the next meeting.. i don't think that this is an official wt arrangement, it might be a private enterprise like the preaching materials .

darkspilver

Hecce - the congregation's own live recording / streaming either on physical media (previously on a 'cassette' tape (?) or usb stick) or via a telephone 'link' or via an internet 'stream' (such as an app) is a private arrangement between the congregation and who they deal with to provide the service - obviously there are 'brothers' who buy-in the set-up and then build a bespoke service which is then 're-sold' to individual congregations.

And, of course, the incentive for the above 'live' listening is that all those listening can be counted as meeting attendance.

You will have already seen the WT videos - either the convention or assembly videos - the congregation meeting videos are just an extension of those.

In addition, when a new language group is being set-up, the WT allows the group to use the foreign-language meeting videos as part of the group's actual meetings in a limited way.

BoE, October 23, 2015 - Re: Foreign-Language Field

Paragraph 14: Recordings and Audio and Video Tie-In: It is preferable for congregation meetings to be conducted locally. However, if such is not yet possible, a pregroup, group, or small congregation may request approval from their circuit overseer to view recorded meetings or portions of meetings in the target language, preferably using JW Stream. (In most cases, the meetings available on JW Stream will be recorded on Monday evening and Saturday morning. Thus, pregroups, groups, and small or isolated congregations desiring to make use of such recordings should hold their meetings at times that will allow them to view the current week’s recordings.) The circuit overseer will approve which pregroups, groups, or small or isolated congregations in his circuit will view such recordings and to what extent. Some congregations may request approval to use the provision occasionally for the public talk. If a small or isolated congregation is approved to view recorded meetings periodically, it should strive to conduct all of its own meetings as soon as possible. As a reminder, when making use of recordings, prayers should be said locally.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5O25TquiW0xakV3c19nbk1ZUEE/view

17

Co-Ordinator of BOE Secretly Putting His DF'd Daughter First

by pale.emperor in

long story short, a friend of mine around the same age as me is df'd.

she's from another city.

we met up a few months ago with other exjws.

darkspilver

The KM 2002 below is quoted in the Elder's book (with a 'paper-trail' through to 1978, as noted below) - so I presume is therefore still 'current'.

I believe it would be on the understanding that the child was living a generally 'moral' life at least when in the family home, and was not notoriously known by others to be living an 'immoral' life when outside the family life.

Also by saying "for a time" would indicate some kind of timeline for the child to get better and move out again from the family home. Of course, unfortunately, their are also situations when the mental/emotional and/or physical illness may also be a long-term or even life-long one, so it might need to be for an 'extended' time.

Kingdom Minstry, August 2002

Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped
The Watchtower addresses another situation that can arise: “What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) . . . What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household.”—The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.
As for a child, the same article continues: “Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring ‘leaven’ into the home?—Gal. 5:9.”

Watchtower, September 15, 1981

If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . .
But what if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. [see footnote]
For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) Perhaps it seems necessary to bring the parent into the home, temporarily or permanently. Or it may appear advisable to arrange for care where there is medical personnel but where the parent would have to be visited. What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household.
This could be true also with regard to a child who had left home but is now disfellowshiped or disassociated. Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring “leaven” into the home?—Gal. 5:9.
In Jesus’ parable of the prodigal son, the father ran to meet and then accepted his returning son. The father, seeing the lad’s pitiful condition, responded with natural parental concern. We can note, though, that the son did not bring home harlots or come with a disposition to continue his sinful life in his father’s home. No, he expressed heartfelt repentance and evidently was determined to return to living a clean life.—Luke 15:11-32.
Footnote: Comments on the situation of elders and ministerial servants are presented in “Questions from Readers” in The Watchtower of February 1, 1978.

Watchtower, February 1, 1978

Questions From Readers: If children in the household of elders or ministerial servants come under a “charge of debauchery,” what determines whether the family head can continue to serve the congregation in an appointed capacity?
If gross wrongdoing by children in the household does raise serious questions in the congregation about a man’s presiding in a fine way over his family, he should not continue serving as an elder or as a ministerial servant. When the man serves as an elder and his fellow elders allow their judgment and decision to be swayed by friendship or sentimentality to the point of sidestepping Scriptural principles, then especially can his continuing to serve as an elder, though unqualified, be spiritually hurtful to the congregation. This is because it can undermine respect for the entire body of elders. It can provide an excuse for other children in the congregation to engage in wrongdoing. So, it is good to keep in mind that the man’s abilities as a speaker or an organizer or his likable personality are really not the point at issue. The determining factor is whether he is fulfilling his role as a father in a fine way. Only if he is may he continue to serve. Of course, when that is so, the body of elders should avoid being unduly critical and faultfinding in reviewing his family situation.

23

Do you know anything about Live Kingdom Hall?

by Hecce in

i learned recently about this link that allows for a person to listen or watch the meetings at the kh that have contracted the service.

you have the option to watch the meeting live or just listen.

there will be a recording of the audio available until the next meeting.. i don't think that this is an official wt arrangement, it might be a private enterprise like the preaching materials .

darkspilver

Hi Hecce

I understand all the live STREAMING - audio and video - is done privately, not through the WT.

Most 'first world' halls nowadays seem to have an audio stream set up - previously this was a landline telephone link-up, but now lots stream live over the internet using various 'private' apps especially designed for KH streaming - this way you get actual video of your OWN congeagtion.

Some KH's I believe use youtube to live stream to an invited audience - see below example.

Remember, those listening or watching the meeting live can be counted as meeting attendance (good incentive for elders to get it orking to improve attendance numbers!!)

This is in contrast to the video meeting RECORDINGS that are WT official.....

The BoE letter you should read is:

BoE October 22, 2015 - Re: Use of JW Stream

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5O25TquiW0xU0pmNVMzYkdtLTA/view
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5133648026140672/now-you-dont-even-have-go-kingdom-hall-all-meetings-recorded-available-on-jw-org-if-you-have-password

These video files, recorded live at various 'real-life' KHs are WT official and are made available by the WT through their website stream.jw.org (these congregation meeting videos are NOT streamed live, but are available to view online 'on-demand' or as mp4 files to download)

The files are available for up to a week, before they are deleted and replaced by the next meeting.

Every month or so the congregation location is changed. There are individual video recordings for each language (yes, hundreds of them, including sign-language).

The videos are sometimes (unintentionally) funny as they really are just a bog-standard congregation and it is all effectively unrehearsed - it is a very real standard meeting, mistakes and all

Below is an example 'private' video stream, not from WT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5B-IsyTZc

23

Does anyone under the age of 25 know what KFC stands for? (What about WT or JW?)

by stuckinarut2 in

as we have seen, the society has so smoothly rolled out the rebranding of the organization in just a few short years!.

(in fact, i remember a thread post here a few years back, where it was mentioned that all halls are going to get the jw.org signs on them.

it was initially laughed off and doubted) https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/279409/jw-org-signs-put-on-all-kingdom-halls-new-directive.

darkspilver

stuckinarut2: Yes, the GB have removed all signs saying "Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses" and "Watchtower" and watchtower logos from every location.

Interesting. Is that with immediate effect, or has it already taken place? Is there a WT letter?

So all that remains to identify the Kingdom Hall is the white on blue square with jw . org on it?

Are the meeting times sign staying? or is the WT asking they be taken down too?

21

REVEALED: The number of Bethelites over the years

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

in response to this thread.

i've put forward the argument that i believe that the 'organization' is financially effectively bleeding itself dry - it is actually financially imploding.. i believe that over the last 45 or so years, in particular, it has evolved from a relatively 'lean machine' into what is now a huge unwieldy organization.

as an organization grows i would expect increased efficiency through by both economies of scale, and advances in technology.. how has the watchtower organization fared?....

darkspilver

slimboyfat: Yet 40 years later they needed 26,000 employees at a time when book and magazine production was in steep decline. It shows how bloated the organisation had become.

Yes, and perhaps I suspect also highlights just how hard the bethelites as a whole worked in the 60s and 70s - which matches up with the first-hand accounts we hear about on this forum.

_Morpheus: i like using the number of bethelites to pub ratio.

The other shocking ratio is that between 'support staff' (cleaners, kitchen, dining, laundry, gardening, residence maintance etc etc) compared to actual 'workers' - I forget what the ratio is that I was told, but I understand there is MORE support staff than actual 'workers'.

21

REVEALED: The number of Bethelites over the years

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

in response to this thread.

i've put forward the argument that i believe that the 'organization' is financially effectively bleeding itself dry - it is actually financially imploding.. i believe that over the last 45 or so years, in particular, it has evolved from a relatively 'lean machine' into what is now a huge unwieldy organization.

as an organization grows i would expect increased efficiency through by both economies of scale, and advances in technology.. how has the watchtower organization fared?....

darkspilver

_Morpheus: Another factor in this would be the staff held for construction in warwick.

Yes, and it admittedly gets a bit hazy regarding who the WT are counting - but the overall trend over the last 55-or-so-years seems very clear when viewing the ratios.

This is what I commented about in an earlier post in this same thread:

I understand that Bethel is VERY hierarchical and specific with reference to what you are - ie are you an 'actual' member of the Bethel Family. I understood from those that have worked full-time on construction projects alongside working Bethels, including international, they had to be 'careful' - although the congregation they were assigned to viewed them as Bethel Family, they were not! they were construction.
Also note the language used below
Awake 22 December 2000, page 19
Truly, it is remarkable that the number of branch offices has increased from one a hundred years ago to 109 today that serve the needs of Jehovah’s Witnesses in 234 lands. And to think that these are staffed by some 13,000 dedicated Christian volunteers! Surely, their work along with that of the some 5,500 volunteers associated with the Society’s headquarters has been vital to the fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus Christ that ‘this good news of God’s Kingdom would be preached in all the inhabited earth before the end comes.’—Matthew 24:14.
I haven't included the 13,000 in my table (as it is not precise) but it fits for the number of Bethelites [added: as per late 1990s on above chart] - notice WT makes a clear distinction with 'volunteers associated with the Society's headquarters' - they're not 'Family'.

3

WTBTS Puffing out the chest.........................

by The Fall Guy in

...................................and blowing it's own trumpet.. "oh look at us, anyone who gives a damn.

satan's system has given us a worldly certificate because of the design of our new money-maker complex in the u.k. this proves we have god's backing!".

https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/united-kingdom/branch-office-breeam-rating-sustainable-design/.

darkspilver

FYI - there's been on going discussion regarding this here in a thread topic started by The Searcher

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5638409936699392/_post/6510646818504704

1

Australia: Caught in Web of Evil (murder of Philip Quayle)

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

"caught in web of evil" is the headline spashed over the front page of today's copy of the cairns post newspaper (thursday, september 7, 2017) in queensland, australia.

the online version appears to be the same, apart from the headlineunlikely backgrounds of pair revealed after being sentenced for their part in cairns murder.

the cairns post / herald sun, wednesday, september 6, 2017. she was a top student as a child, he finished as school dux and was studying medicine at university.. how samantha french and alexander hansen became caught up in one of the most chilling recent murders in cairns defies belief.. but yesterday they faced court, charged with their parts in helping jake livingstone cover his tracks after he beat chef philip quayle to death in a cruel, random attack on spence st.. the cairns district court heard how, in the hours after they watched 21-year-old livingstone attack the 27-year-old hospitality worker in february 2015, the trio drove around the city, dumping and burning clothes in white rock, retrieving evidence from a cbd bin and disposing of it in mangroves near the cairns airport.. later that night the horror of what unfolded became too much for french.

darkspilver

"Caught in Web of Evil" is the headline spashed over the front page of today's copy of the Cairns Post newspaper (Thursday, September 7, 2017) in Queensland, Australia

The online version appears to be the same, apart from the headline

Unlikely backgrounds of pair revealed after being sentenced for their part in Cairns murder

The Cairns Post / Herald Sun, Wednesday, September 6, 2017
She was a top student as a child, he finished as school dux and was studying medicine at university.
How Samantha French and Alexander Hansen became caught up in one of the most chilling recent murders in Cairns defies belief.
But yesterday they faced court, charged with their parts in helping Jake Livingstone cover his tracks after he beat chef Philip Quayle to death in a cruel, random attack on Spence St.
The Cairns District Court heard how, in the hours after they watched 21-year-old Livingstone attack the 27-year-old hospitality worker in February 2015, the trio drove around the city, dumping and burning clothes in White Rock, retrieving evidence from a CBD bin and disposing of it in mangroves near the Cairns Airport.
Later that night the horror of what unfolded became too much for French. She got her then boyfriend to drive her to the police station where she told detectives a sordid and tragic tale.
It was the moment the 25-year-old’s life, which had been on a downhill slide for eight years, finally took a turn for the better.
A Gold Coast girl, she excelled in school and had all the makings of a success when, as a young teenager her mum was diagnosed with epilepsy.
She quit school to get a job and help her family, but two years later rebelled against her strict Jehovah's Witness upbringing and left home.
As the cliche goes, she fell in with the wrong crowd and a few years later found herself drinking and smoking cannabis with Livingstone and Hansen one fateful night.
...
While French came to the police station willingly, it was her that dobbed in Hansen and led police to both him, Livingstone and the evidence.
...
The court heard, through her barrister Stephanie Williams, that French’s life is back on track.
After the murder she returned to live with her parents under the condition of sobriety, got back custody of her two young children who were removed from her care several years before, and has rejoined the church.
She parted ways with partner Glen Liam Cetinich — who she also dobbed in for trafficking ice and ecstasy, despite it also revealing her involvement.
He was jailed earlier this year.
French began a chef apprenticeship, although took leave during the court cases, but expects to return and qualify.
“She has very good prospects of becoming a positive contributor to society,” Ms Williams said.
...
French received a nine-month jail term but was granted immediate parole, while Hansen got 12-months jail fully suspended for 18 months
READ MORE: http://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/cairns/unlikely-backgrounds-of-pair-revealed-after-being-sentenced-for-their-part-in-cairns-murder/news-story/139341abb7e9f3a532aab16984ebf747
READ MORE: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/unlikely-backgrounds-of-pair-revealed-after-being-sentenced-for-their-part-in-cairns-murder/news-story/139341abb7e9f3a532aab16984ebf747

FYI - some background including a timeline

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/random-street-attack-turned-murder/3172243/

21

REVEALED: The number of Bethelites over the years

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

in response to this thread.

i've put forward the argument that i believe that the 'organization' is financially effectively bleeding itself dry - it is actually financially imploding.. i believe that over the last 45 or so years, in particular, it has evolved from a relatively 'lean machine' into what is now a huge unwieldy organization.

as an organization grows i would expect increased efficiency through by both economies of scale, and advances in technology.. how has the watchtower organization fared?....

darkspilver

UPDATE: 2016 Service Year

There appears to have been a dramatic 24% drop in Bethelites,

The number is now down to the level it last was in 2008.

The ratio of bethelites-to-publishers seems to be down to early 1980s levels (!)

45

Britain Branch to Cease Printing Sooner Than Expected

by The Searcher in

i've received the following news from a reliable and trusted source: .

the demise of printing literature in the u.k. is being brought forward by one year - to march 2018. graphic design and printing support will go too.

large numbers of "disposable" bethelites will now have to make their own way in the world, when their "mother" abandons them.

darkspilver

slimboyfat: At its peak the worldwide "bethel family" was, what 26,000 or something?

FYI

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5639304585936896/revealed-number-bethelites-over-years

The ratio of bethelites-to-publishers is interesting - though the WT does a lot more translating now, but still....