Posts by berrygerry

2

EX Jehovah Witnesses Refuge Group a Place for Healing

by maccauk in

are you an ex jw or thinking about leaving the watchtower but still have faith in god.please join this new group to share your stories, hopes and fears and find support and healing.

https://www.facebook.com/ex-jehovah-witness-refuge-468977380168882/about/.

berrygerry

https://www.facebook.com/groups/xjwrg3/

23

Update on the $4000 day fine - Padron v Watchtower

by berrygerry in

from reddit:.

this was an oral argument to dismiss the $4000/day fine.

both sides presented their arguments and now the judges will write an opinion (30 to 90 days).

This was an oral argument to dismiss the $4000/day fine. Both sides presented their arguments and now the judges will write an opinion (30 to 90 days). There were no recording devices, laptops/tablets or cellphones allowed so I got as much as I could by just trying to furiously take notes. It was very fast, both sides had about 20 minutes. I hope I got the gist with few errors. I felt lost a few times when they referred back to things that I hadn’t seen or been aware of prior. I found out later San Diego Reader was there so his article will be more succinct, but he probably will leave off the juicy details. ;)

Francis McNamara for Watchtower was up first and right off the bat one of the judges was exasperated with Watchtowers inconsistency in their position. This is one time I wish I would have read the brief prior (still haven’t had a chance) because this line of communication started with a bang and I wasn’t aware that Watchtower had flip flopped. If anyone has any information on this I’d love to hear it. The judge actually said “it’s a breathtaking process to listen to you flip flop” their first position seems to have come around to bite them and now they’re in a uphill battle.

Another judge asked if they have a bigger issue with the amount of the fine or the principal of the fine and told them to decide what their real issue is. Watchtower contended that the two cases are different (Lopez and Padron), that the sanction is not authorized by law and that they should have had a contempt procedure and gone back to trial court.

Zalkin said a contempt statute only allows for a one time sanction, that a solid basis for the sanction has been provided and the court does have authority to enforce orders / monetary sanctions as part of discovery.

Watchtower keeps contending that it doesn’t have control of CCJW (Christian Congregation of JWs) or custody of the documents because CCJW is a separate corporation. Apparently the service desk is under CCJW. Zalkin explained to the judge that that is just all smoke and mirrors. Watchtower admitted that document production would be “unduly burdensome” and now they are trying to claim they are a completely separate entity with no authority over CCJW. One judge said “why would it be burdensome to Watchtower if you have nothing to do with CCJW, seems like you are playing a game here” . They’ve made inconsistent declarations where it suits them per usual. Watchtower said the burden is that Watchtower and CCJW share a legal department. I could tell none of the judges are buying any of this.

With regard to the redactions Watchtower is claiming that because the congregations are small having elders and victims names revealed would impact privacy issues and freedom of religion. Zalkin said that the trial court heard motion after motion about privacy and there was mention of limiting use but I wasn’t clear on that point, again I’m sure the brief has details. This was towards the end and when the judge said “seems like you just want to come back again and again until the end of time”. They all seemed extremely annoyed so that’s good news.

I was overwhelmed knowing I had to get it all down with just notes so again, I hope I didn’t leave too much out or make errors but the opinion will be out soon and hopefully we are closer to a resolution.

4

The lure of reading the wt is equivalent to a college education came about

by MTSman in

jw
friends

i've been out for, god, six years now.

it only seems like yesterday when i was before three a-holes pleading for my life.

relecting back, i've come to realize having the ax fall on me was the best thing.

berrygerry

Twas posted on reddit today

From Watchtower June 15, 1983:

Would you like to grow in knowledge, obtaining an education of even much greater value than can be received in any college? You can do so by reading regularly this magazine and its companion, Awake!

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/113622/reading-wt-awake-x-years-college-education#1987571

51

The boys in Pennsylvania- The real power behind Watchtower

by UnshackleTheChains in

i am quite interested in something mike and kim said in their video when talking about why their you tube videos are being taken down.

in their video below, at around 35 seconds.

mike say's that he has being trying to tell people that the boys in pennsylvania are the real power behind watchtower - not the governing body?.

berrygerry

Corporate members AND their guests' have dinner separately

In a private area, not in the dining room. Interesting.

48

Paradise? Was it?

by TerryWalstrom in

paradisewas it really paradise to be in paradise?adam and eve never were held by a mother, never cuddled and sung to with a lullaby nor nursed or coddled with tenderness or any human familial embrace.

the first humans (adam and eve) never learned to toddle surrounded by brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles and grandparents cheering them on.

the entire experience of childhood was excised surgically like a trauma patient awakening from an accident with amnesia.adam and eve were never in a neighborhood with other kids forming friendship bonds for life and exchanging dreams and hopes for a future they were building in their community.

berrygerry

would have eaten anything to keep her.

Almost anything. Needs to be Anthony Morris approved.

4

What's Old Is New Again

by berrygerry in

from annual meeting.

re: dropping non-progressing magazine calls.. https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/163404/does-anyone-remember-big-6-month-bible-study-push-during-mid-1990s.

berrygerry

From Annual Meeting. Re: Dropping non-progressing magazine calls.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/163404/does-anyone-remember-big-6-month-bible-study-push-during-mid-1990s

5

ARC—What's Next?

by Saename in

so as we know, the wt changed very little with regards to how they respond to child sexual abuse allegations.

they basically ignored the australian royal commission's report on how they could improve their policies.

the watchtower is left alone in australia to do as they please, or will there be some kind of follow-up?

berrygerry

I think it will be interesting to see when kingdom halls around Australia suddenly start announcing elder so and so has to step down.

This is real. The gossip machine will be whirling away, at a minimum.

Also, I do not know the class action process in Oz, but given the class actions started in Canada, it is difficult to see it not happen there too.

7

Door-to-door Going Forward

by berrygerry in

i found that the sale (placement) of books and magazines was always a challenge, but it was still attainable.

when the magazines switched from semi-monthly to monthly, magazine calls were automatically cut in half.

return visits that were made "just to say hi" were hugely awkward.. i never participated in the "please watch a video on my tablet" work, but i would imagine that the fail rate compared to magazine placement is massive.. reducing magazine frequency yet again would make me worked up inside.

berrygerry

I found that the sale (placement) of books and magazines was always a challenge, but it was still attainable.

When the magazines switched from semi-monthly to monthly, magazine calls were automatically cut in half. Return visits that were made "just to say Hi" were hugely awkward.

I never participated in the "please watch a video on my tablet" work, but I would imagine that the fail rate compared to magazine placement is massive.

Reducing magazine frequency yet again would make me worked up inside. Return visits will virtually disappear altogether.

Would anyone want to do door-to-door in the future?

32

Interesting conversation with JW friend

by Jules Saturn in

i was withh a friend of mine who is a jw still and for whatever reason we started talking the bible.

i asked him about lazarus and how is that when he died he paid the price of sin, but then jesus resurrected him.

and i asked him "where is lazarus today?

berrygerry

However, in the case of Eutychus at Acts 20:9, the ransom had already been paid. So Eutychus, according to God's own law on sin, should still be alive.

Damn. Good one.

32

Interesting conversation with JW friend

by Jules Saturn in

i was withh a friend of mine who is a jw still and for whatever reason we started talking the bible.

i asked him about lazarus and how is that when he died he paid the price of sin, but then jesus resurrected him.

and i asked him "where is lazarus today?

berrygerry

I believe the Lazarus' defense is that Jesus hadn't given his ransom yet, so no one was entitled to a perfect resurrection.

But your question is still valid.

If Lazarus paid the penalty of sin, why resurrect him again as being imperfect (WT answer is that that way, Lazarus can be resurrected the next time as a 144,000).