Posts by berrygerry

33

The Creation of Jesus

by berrygerry in

seeing a trinity thread.. can a jw apologist explain what (not who) is jesus?.

prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (draw close book), jehovah created jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.. there was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just jehovah - and then, just jehovah and jesus.

so, what was jesus?.

berrygerry

Thanks David Jay

The consensus of theologians both Christian and Jew is that the Bible teaches that God produced all creation from nothing.

I can envision that type of thinking pre-Middle Age. Would there be any shift in that thinking since then?

33

The Creation of Jesus

by berrygerry in

seeing a trinity thread.. can a jw apologist explain what (not who) is jesus?.

prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (draw close book), jehovah created jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.. there was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just jehovah - and then, just jehovah and jesus.

so, what was jesus?.

berrygerry

Why bother to understand?

Not trying to understand. Trying to debate.

Effectively, WT teaches that Jehovah is pure energy, and for literally endless eons of time, Jehovah existed all alone, and that with absolutely no creation existing. Jehovah and Jesus used Jehovah's energy to create all matter.

So what was Jesus created from? Would it not have been from Jehovah's energy?

Essentially, Jehovah took some of the energy from his own spirit body to create the spirit body of Jesus.

The difference between WT's teaching of Jesus' origin and that of Trinitarians is really just a matter of wording.

33

The Creation of Jesus

by berrygerry in

seeing a trinity thread.. can a jw apologist explain what (not who) is jesus?.

prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (draw close book), jehovah created jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.. there was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just jehovah - and then, just jehovah and jesus.

so, what was jesus?.

berrygerry

Seeing a trinity thread.

Can a JW apologist explain WHAT (not who) is Jesus?

Prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (Draw Close book), Jehovah created Jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.

There was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just Jehovah - and then, just Jehovah and Jesus.

So, WHAT was Jesus?

Also, WHAT was Jehovah?

76

The Trinity Easily Explained in 29 Words

by maccauk in

a man can be a father .

a man can be a son.

a man can be a husband.

berrygerry

Who fucking cares.

Beat me to it. (With one extra word thrown in.)

2

EX Jehovah Witnesses Refuge Group a Place for Healing

by maccauk in

are you an ex jw or thinking about leaving the watchtower but still have faith in god.please join this new group to share your stories, hopes and fears and find support and healing.

https://www.facebook.com/ex-jehovah-witness-refuge-468977380168882/about/.

berrygerry

https://www.facebook.com/groups/xjwrg3/

23

Update on the $4000 day fine - Padron v Watchtower

by berrygerry in

from reddit:.

this was an oral argument to dismiss the $4000/day fine.

both sides presented their arguments and now the judges will write an opinion (30 to 90 days).

berrygerry

From reddit:

This was an oral argument to dismiss the $4000/day fine. Both sides presented their arguments and now the judges will write an opinion (30 to 90 days). There were no recording devices, laptops/tablets or cellphones allowed so I got as much as I could by just trying to furiously take notes. It was very fast, both sides had about 20 minutes. I hope I got the gist with few errors. I felt lost a few times when they referred back to things that I hadn’t seen or been aware of prior. I found out later San Diego Reader was there so his article will be more succinct, but he probably will leave off the juicy details. ;)

Francis McNamara for Watchtower was up first and right off the bat one of the judges was exasperated with Watchtowers inconsistency in their position. This is one time I wish I would have read the brief prior (still haven’t had a chance) because this line of communication started with a bang and I wasn’t aware that Watchtower had flip flopped. If anyone has any information on this I’d love to hear it. The judge actually said “it’s a breathtaking process to listen to you flip flop” their first position seems to have come around to bite them and now they’re in a uphill battle.

Another judge asked if they have a bigger issue with the amount of the fine or the principal of the fine and told them to decide what their real issue is. Watchtower contended that the two cases are different (Lopez and Padron), that the sanction is not authorized by law and that they should have had a contempt procedure and gone back to trial court.

Zalkin said a contempt statute only allows for a one time sanction, that a solid basis for the sanction has been provided and the court does have authority to enforce orders / monetary sanctions as part of discovery.

Watchtower keeps contending that it doesn’t have control of CCJW (Christian Congregation of JWs) or custody of the documents because CCJW is a separate corporation. Apparently the service desk is under CCJW. Zalkin explained to the judge that that is just all smoke and mirrors. Watchtower admitted that document production would be “unduly burdensome” and now they are trying to claim they are a completely separate entity with no authority over CCJW. One judge said “why would it be burdensome to Watchtower if you have nothing to do with CCJW, seems like you are playing a game here” . They’ve made inconsistent declarations where it suits them per usual. Watchtower said the burden is that Watchtower and CCJW share a legal department. I could tell none of the judges are buying any of this.

With regard to the redactions Watchtower is claiming that because the congregations are small having elders and victims names revealed would impact privacy issues and freedom of religion. Zalkin said that the trial court heard motion after motion about privacy and there was mention of limiting use but I wasn’t clear on that point, again I’m sure the brief has details. This was towards the end and when the judge said “seems like you just want to come back again and again until the end of time”. They all seemed extremely annoyed so that’s good news.

I was overwhelmed knowing I had to get it all down with just notes so again, I hope I didn’t leave too much out or make errors but the opinion will be out soon and hopefully we are closer to a resolution.

4

The lure of reading the wt is equivalent to a college education came about

by MTSman in

jw
friends

i've been out for, god, six years now.

it only seems like yesterday when i was before three a-holes pleading for my life.

relecting back, i've come to realize having the ax fall on me was the best thing.

berrygerry

Twas posted on reddit today

From Watchtower June 15, 1983:

Would you like to grow in knowledge, obtaining an education of even much greater value than can be received in any college? You can do so by reading regularly this magazine and its companion, Awake!

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/113622/reading-wt-awake-x-years-college-education#1987571

51

The boys in Pennsylvania- The real power behind Watchtower

by UnshackleTheChains in

i am quite interested in something mike and kim said in their video when talking about why their you tube videos are being taken down.

in their video below, at around 35 seconds.

mike say's that he has being trying to tell people that the boys in pennsylvania are the real power behind watchtower - not the governing body?.

berrygerry

Corporate members AND their guests' have dinner separately

In a private area, not in the dining room. Interesting.

48

Paradise? Was it?

by TerryWalstrom in

paradisewas it really paradise to be in paradise?adam and eve never were held by a mother, never cuddled and sung to with a lullaby nor nursed or coddled with tenderness or any human familial embrace.

the first humans (adam and eve) never learned to toddle surrounded by brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles and grandparents cheering them on.

the entire experience of childhood was excised surgically like a trauma patient awakening from an accident with amnesia.adam and eve were never in a neighborhood with other kids forming friendship bonds for life and exchanging dreams and hopes for a future they were building in their community.

berrygerry

would have eaten anything to keep her.

Almost anything. Needs to be Anthony Morris approved.

4

What's Old Is New Again

by berrygerry in

from annual meeting.

re: dropping non-progressing magazine calls.. https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/163404/does-anyone-remember-big-6-month-bible-study-push-during-mid-1990s.

berrygerry

From Annual Meeting. Re: Dropping non-progressing magazine calls.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/163404/does-anyone-remember-big-6-month-bible-study-push-during-mid-1990s