berrygerry
JoinedPosts by berrygerry
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18
Being Disfellowshipped + On-Going Cycle of Depression
by Cimarrona ini've been disfellowshipped for six years, since i was 18. i struggle with depression and self-destructive habits (minor in comparison to the suicides, substance abuse, risky sexual behavior of others i've grown up with who have left or were too afraid to leave).
i'm fairly successful for my age - respected in my field, i have an extensive curriculum vitae of published writing, presentations, and other projects.
yet, i often feel worthless and unloveable.
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21
It's Going Down: The Family Is About to Go to War Over... Halloween Decorations.
by Sorry inyup, you read right.
despite other personal turmoil that needs to be addressed, my family has decided to go nuts over halloween decorations being "too close" to our yard.
a new family just moved in next door; their kids are super young.
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berrygerry
I dont have much respect for Halloween based on the fact that adults spend so much time and effort to frighten young impressionable children.
Far better to groom them for a lifetime of emotional suffering from physical, emotional, and sexual abuse.
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33
The Creation of Jesus
by berrygerry inseeing a trinity thread.. can a jw apologist explain what (not who) is jesus?.
prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (draw close book), jehovah created jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.. there was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just jehovah - and then, just jehovah and jesus.
so, what was jesus?.
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berrygerry
If Jesus is a creation, this teaching of the Witnesses is paradoxical. If Jesus is made from God, then the Nicene Creed is true, that Jesus is indeed "Light from Light, true God from true God."
This is exactly my thinking. WT is teaching the same result as Trinitarians, but using different language or wording.
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33
The Creation of Jesus
by berrygerry inseeing a trinity thread.. can a jw apologist explain what (not who) is jesus?.
prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (draw close book), jehovah created jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.. there was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just jehovah - and then, just jehovah and jesus.
so, what was jesus?.
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berrygerry
Thanks David Jay
The consensus of theologians both Christian and Jew is that the Bible teaches that God produced all creation from nothing.
I can envision that type of thinking pre-Middle Age. Would there be any shift in that thinking since then?
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33
The Creation of Jesus
by berrygerry inseeing a trinity thread.. can a jw apologist explain what (not who) is jesus?.
prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (draw close book), jehovah created jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.. there was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just jehovah - and then, just jehovah and jesus.
so, what was jesus?.
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berrygerry
Why bother to understand?
Not trying to understand. Trying to debate.
Effectively, WT teaches that Jehovah is pure energy, and for literally endless eons of time, Jehovah existed all alone, and that with absolutely no creation existing. Jehovah and Jesus used Jehovah's energy to create all matter.
So what was Jesus created from? Would it not have been from Jehovah's energy?
Essentially, Jehovah took some of the energy from his own spirit body to create the spirit body of Jesus.
The difference between WT's teaching of Jesus' origin and that of Trinitarians is really just a matter of wording.
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The Creation of Jesus
by berrygerry inseeing a trinity thread.. can a jw apologist explain what (not who) is jesus?.
prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (draw close book), jehovah created jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.. there was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just jehovah - and then, just jehovah and jesus.
so, what was jesus?.
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berrygerry
Seeing a trinity thread.
Can a JW apologist explain WHAT (not who) is Jesus?
Prior to the creation of everything 13.7 billion years ago (Draw Close book), Jehovah created Jesus as his firstborn, his only-begotten.
There was nothing else - no stars, no dust, no matter - just Jehovah - and then, just Jehovah and Jesus.
So, WHAT was Jesus?
Also, WHAT was Jehovah?
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76
The Trinity Easily Explained in 29 Words
by maccauk ina man can be a father .
a man can be a son.
a man can be a husband.
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berrygerry
Who fucking cares.
Beat me to it. (With one extra word thrown in.)
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2
EX Jehovah Witnesses Refuge Group a Place for Healing
by maccauk inare you an ex jw or thinking about leaving the watchtower but still have faith in god.please join this new group to share your stories, hopes and fears and find support and healing.
https://www.facebook.com/ex-jehovah-witness-refuge-468977380168882/about/.
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23
Update on the $4000 day fine - Padron v Watchtower
by berrygerry infrom reddit:.
this was an oral argument to dismiss the $4000/day fine.
both sides presented their arguments and now the judges will write an opinion (30 to 90 days).
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berrygerry
From reddit:
This was an oral argument to dismiss the $4000/day fine. Both sides presented their arguments and now the judges will write an opinion (30 to 90 days). There were no recording devices, laptops/tablets or cellphones allowed so I got as much as I could by just trying to furiously take notes. It was very fast, both sides had about 20 minutes. I hope I got the gist with few errors. I felt lost a few times when they referred back to things that I hadn’t seen or been aware of prior. I found out later San Diego Reader was there so his article will be more succinct, but he probably will leave off the juicy details. ;)
Francis McNamara for Watchtower was up first and right off the bat one of the judges was exasperated with Watchtowers inconsistency in their position. This is one time I wish I would have read the brief prior (still haven’t had a chance) because this line of communication started with a bang and I wasn’t aware that Watchtower had flip flopped. If anyone has any information on this I’d love to hear it. The judge actually said “it’s a breathtaking process to listen to you flip flop” their first position seems to have come around to bite them and now they’re in a uphill battle.
Another judge asked if they have a bigger issue with the amount of the fine or the principal of the fine and told them to decide what their real issue is. Watchtower contended that the two cases are different (Lopez and Padron), that the sanction is not authorized by law and that they should have had a contempt procedure and gone back to trial court.
Zalkin said a contempt statute only allows for a one time sanction, that a solid basis for the sanction has been provided and the court does have authority to enforce orders / monetary sanctions as part of discovery.
Watchtower keeps contending that it doesn’t have control of CCJW (Christian Congregation of JWs) or custody of the documents because CCJW is a separate corporation. Apparently the service desk is under CCJW. Zalkin explained to the judge that that is just all smoke and mirrors. Watchtower admitted that document production would be “unduly burdensome” and now they are trying to claim they are a completely separate entity with no authority over CCJW. One judge said “why would it be burdensome to Watchtower if you have nothing to do with CCJW, seems like you are playing a game here” . They’ve made inconsistent declarations where it suits them per usual. Watchtower said the burden is that Watchtower and CCJW share a legal department. I could tell none of the judges are buying any of this.
With regard to the redactions Watchtower is claiming that because the congregations are small having elders and victims names revealed would impact privacy issues and freedom of religion. Zalkin said that the trial court heard motion after motion about privacy and there was mention of limiting use but I wasn’t clear on that point, again I’m sure the brief has details. This was towards the end and when the judge said “seems like you just want to come back again and again until the end of time”. They all seemed extremely annoyed so that’s good news.
I was overwhelmed knowing I had to get it all down with just notes so again, I hope I didn’t leave too much out or make errors but the opinion will be out soon and hopefully we are closer to a resolution.
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4
The lure of reading the wt is equivalent to a college education came about
by MTSman ini've been out for, god, six years now.
it only seems like yesterday when i was before three a-holes pleading for my life.
relecting back, i've come to realize having the ax fall on me was the best thing.
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berrygerry
Twas posted on reddit today
From Watchtower June 15, 1983:
Would you like to grow in knowledge, obtaining an education of even much greater value than can be received in any college? You can do so by reading regularly this magazine and its companion, Awake!
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/113622/reading-wt-awake-x-years-college-education#1987571