Posts by OneEyedJoe

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

If you let them think they've saved you, won't that just re-start you back at square 1? When you continue to fade, you'll be right back on their radar again, so I guess I don't see what the advantage is to staying off the radar for a little while now, when it might be better to establish a pattern of not meeting with them. I would think (but could be completely wrong, and that's why I'm asking) that the elders would get to the point that they know you won't meet, so they won't try very hard when the CO comes by or whatever. If you let them think they've saved you, it seems like they'll be more likely to keep trying later on as you continue to fade.

4

How many Jw's would like to know they are inferior christians according to thier leaders?

by Crazyguy in

most jw's don't know that they are in fact jonadabs and that in the vidication books rutherford came up with this class because he found some christians not as holy as others having part of themselves still stuck in satan's system still wanting to be wordly in some fashion.

so he came up with this class the jonadabs.

i wonder how jw's would react if they were to find this out?

OneEyedJoe

It sounds to me that you're lacking in humility (that's the JW reply I'd expect....)

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

OneEyedJoe

DoC - I love it. I think i may use that..."I'm waiting on jehovah, I'm just not waiting at the KH"

62

Roll call of those of us stuck in for our spouse or whos spouse is still in!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i just wanted to get a feel for how many here have awakened to ttatt but are still carrying on some jw activities to pacify them and keep the peace.

also trying to hear from those who have left, but whose spouse has stayed in the wt and in the marriage.. for me it comes down to my own mental anguish.

i am mentally tortured by attending the meetings, yet i feel compelled to because my wife would kill me with her personality if i had her drag 2 small girls by herself there.

OneEyedJoe

So much of what you wrote resonates with me. I'm fairly newly awakened, and luckily I don't have the added mental stress of having to think about kids, but my wife is definitely still in. I go to the meetings doing everything I can (including going to the back to read posts here) to keep from flipping out. While I'm not normally an emotional person, I am when it comes to my wife. I can't stand it knowing she's mad or stressed or unhappy or anything, so it's difficult to work up to doing something that I know will result in that, even if it's for her own good.

Like you, I'm focusing on being a good and loving husband. When it comes to any 'kingdom' activity, I subtly try to amplify the negatives in a way that highlights them without making me look negative. This is usually done by making a little bit of a show of some sacrifice that I'm making to go to the meeting or whatever (being vague so as not to completely reveal my identity) and I think it's working to make her subconsiously view JW stuff in a slightly more negative light.

We're all in it together.

52

reading COC for the first time

by This is my tigersuit in

OneEyedJoe

You're definitely not alone, I went through much the same feelings reading that book. I'd so long held on to the WWI outbreak in 1914 as the last thing that meant that it was "the truth" and when I let myself think critically on that, I realized that if it wasn't the truth, then it meant that the GB had been systematically lying to me and all my loved ones for my entire life. For a while I held to the thought that no one was that evil to do that, and it couldn't possibly be the case. Once I read through jwfacts and CoC, it finally hit me like a ton of bricks that this organization is the worst thing that i've ever encountered.

You're very lucky that you're able to make the journey with your wife for support. Many aren't that lucky. If you start to feel like it's too much, remember you're not alone and many more have made it through alone and turned out just fine. You can do it too.

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

OneEyedJoe

A little on a tangent, but relating to your comment about them having to put you into a category - I recently watched a TED talk (Kathryn Schulz: On being wrong) when the speaker talked about the assumptions we make about people who disagree with us. It's easy to see people go through these phases, and I think it's happening with your elders. The three assumptions you make, in order are:

Ignorance (i.e. the other person just doesn't have all the information - Lets read these scriptures)

Then once they realize that you're familiar with all the information/scriptures/WT articles on the topic that they are, they move to:

Idiocy - You just don't understand, you don't have the ability to reason clearly.

Once you demonstrate that you're thinking clearly, they move on to the final one:

The Evil assumption. This is where you're likely at now. You've demonstrated that you have all the information and you're thinking clearly, so the only (in their minds) logical way that you could still be sayings something contrary to their beliefs is if you know the truth, but you're concealing it.

This is a pretty fundamental part of human nature, and I think one of the reasons cults are so successful at controlling people. It's your first reaction to classify intelligent, well informed dissenters as evil. If you have your cult friends backing you up on this assumption, it becomes unshakable.

I don't have anything to add specific to your situation, as I've never been through it, but I want to thank you for continuing to share your story, as it helps me to prepare myself for the road ahead. We're all pulling for ya, and I hope you're able to get out clean.

17

STOP calling JW's a CULT--unless . . . they fit the checklist!

by Terry in

it is unkind, premature and even irresponsible to label people with whom we disagree using pejorative names.. for example, labeling a movement as a cult.. consider this example:.

sociologists d. bromley and a. shupe once described what they called the tnevnoc cult.

membership was open only to women, who were required to shave their heads, change their names, and wear specific clothing once they had entered the group.

OneEyedJoe

If you ask me, the checklist is too big. All you really need is #5 to be considered a harmful cult, in my book. Though #5 is a pretty big one, and in one way or another includes most of the others. #5 (The BITE control) includes the most harmful bit, IMO - shunning (which is part of information control) and "seperateness from the world" (which is really just shunning lite). Without shunning, people would truely have the freedom to leave conscienciously without having their family held hostage.

17

STOP calling JW's a CULT--unless . . . they fit the checklist!

by Terry in

it is unkind, premature and even irresponsible to label people with whom we disagree using pejorative names.. for example, labeling a movement as a cult.. consider this example:.

sociologists d. bromley and a. shupe once described what they called the tnevnoc cult.

membership was open only to women, who were required to shave their heads, change their names, and wear specific clothing once they had entered the group.

OneEyedJoe

You can add to your list loading the language (having a vocabulary specific to cult members that redefines common words). As your other recent thread eludes to, the words one uses can have a profound effect on one's thoughts. So lets see, do JW's load the language?

Truth -> means either JW doctrine or the organization (WTBTS)

Service -> means going D2D

Field -> Where you go out in service

Spiritual -> label to give someone who does a lot of D2D work and shows up at all meetings

Disfellowship -> shun

appostate -> anyone who disagrees with 'the truth'

And more....

This is such a powerful tool to control people, especially the first one. The cult members no longer have a way to form a thought against the organization, because "The truth is wrong" just doesn't make sense and is immediately rejected.

17

What Specifically Are the "Sins" Due to Imperfection that We Commit Each Day ?

by RubaDub in

as jw's we are constantly reminded that we sin each day due to imperfection.

but when bringing up the specifics, i have never gotten a good answer.. several times i have even mentioned to others of my getting up on a sunday morning, reading the daily text, studying the watchtower for the afternoon meeting, driving to the meeting (under the speed limit), answering at the meeting, (not using more than one towel in the restroom), going out in service later in the afternoon, coming home, having dinner, and then in the evening preparing for a part for the ministry school.. i didn't recall scheming in my heart about doing something bad or anything like that.. so, specifically, where does the "sin" come in?

and if what i did was sinful, how can i improve on it?

OneEyedJoe

You probably sin in thought all the time. Especially being male, you probably glanced at a girl's cleavage or had a fleeting impure thought. Nothing like thought-crime straight from 1984 to make people feel guilty. If you can't think of anything you did wrong in the last 5 minutes, then your sin is a lack of humility. Or, you probably walked past someone on the street and didn't have enough leaflets to give them one. There's always more you could be doing in the work of the lord, and not doing so is a sin. Remember, jesus went and talked to people even when he was sleep deprived, you probably didn't get up early enough to spend a full 2 hours in service before the sun rose.

13

Focus sends his LOVE to the GOVERNING BODY, senior OVERSEERS, etc.

by Focus in

jw
friends

focus.

("love and kisses" class).

focus.

OneEyedJoe

Jesus, adam is hung like a horse. That must've been the cause of eve's death.