Posts by OneEyedJoe

42

2014 MEMORIAL ATTENDANCES FOR REST OF THE WORLD

by steve2 in

the october kingdom ministry for the united states reported the 2014 memorial attendances for the us branch office that has subsequently been well discussed in a separate thread.

in that thread, a poster asserted that in some parts of europe the attendance had been higher than last year - but to date no source evidence has been provided.. so, have memorial attendances for other parts of the world been reported in any of the publications such as kingdom ministryyet?.

if so, could you direct me to the source(s).

OneEyedJoe

Man, Japan is always ahead of the trends - declining since 2004!

16

Today's public talk: shameless indoctrination

by OneEyedJoe in

today's talk was really somethin'.

so much so that i felt compelled to post this during the wt study.... i didn't pay attention to the theme, but where i to title the talk it would be "logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.".

that's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, i'm sure.. it starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims.

OneEyedJoe

No worries, Hairtrigger. You'd really have to make an effort to offend me. Plus, I really do feel dirty when I leave that place.

You're right though, it's quite amazing how classic indoctrination techniques can be passed on implicitly to the indoctrinated. I've known the speaker for a while, and he's a genuinely nice guy so I can't even ascribe evil intentions to him. At the same time, though, he could hardly have come up with a more effective attempt at phobia indoctrination to make everyone afraid of stepping out of line. I mean seriously, he equated (and, I might add, fairly convincingly if you don't know what he's doing) any action that was even a little outside the lines (i.e. listening to one song to see what all the fuss was about) to stepping outside a shelter into a tornado - i.e. certain death. Asking people to imagine dying, then asserting that would be the result of any "curiosity" about the world. Absolutely disgusting, and yet said by a genuinely friendly, kind man.

I don't know what goes on at those elder's schools, but I assume they don't explicitly teach the elders to use phobia indocrtination, so I guess they just subconsciously know what methods were used to indoctrinate them and they parrot it out, like you say. It's just crazy to see it in action like that. I guess that's just one more indirect way cults can control people, because if you don't watch it in action knowing what's goign on, it seems absolutely insane that those indoctrinated into the cult would just sort of stumble on the ideal indoctrination methods.

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

OneEyedJoe

Well I guess that makes one of us.

Great thread BTW.

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

OneEyedJoe

How's that drink, DATA-DOG?

63

Where was the dead body of Jesus? Did the disciples disappear it?

by opusdei1972 in

i am currently an skeptic, but i have to admit that i can't assure that all the stuff of early christianity was false.. for instance, we know that the genuine letters of paul were written before the destruction of jerusalem.

so, paul affirmed that jesus resurrected, though he was not there when it supposedly happened.

but, if jesus did not resurrect, why didn't the jews expose this falsehood?.

OneEyedJoe

Before you can prove Jesus' body disappeared, you'll have to prove that Jesus existed at all. There's no evidence that he did, and even of there was a man on whom the story is based, the story most certainly has plenty of holes.

19

needing advice on neighbors and ...

by advice-on-neighbors in

jw
friends

guns.

i am not jehovahs' witness, so thank you for allowing me this visit.

i have friends i respect deeply who are, and much apprecaite their faith and integrity.. however i have a problem with my jehovah witness neigbors shooting guns often, five days this week.

OneEyedJoe

On second thought, you might get some traction if you write a letter of complaint to your local kingdom hall specifying their unchristian behavior. That may not be likely to get you any great result, depending on their status with the cult, but it may put them in an awkward situation. JWs put a lot of lip service to "giving a good witness" and setting an example so they will likely get a talking to from the local cult leaders at the very least.

19

needing advice on neighbors and ...

by advice-on-neighbors in

jw
friends

guns.

i am not jehovahs' witness, so thank you for allowing me this visit.

i have friends i respect deeply who are, and much apprecaite their faith and integrity.. however i have a problem with my jehovah witness neigbors shooting guns often, five days this week.

OneEyedJoe

Unfortunately JWs are only able to apply scriptural principles to others, not themselves. If you've already talked to them and they've made no attempt to accommodate your concerns, I don't see many options other than to contact the police, if indeed they are violating any laws.

16

Today's public talk: shameless indoctrination

by OneEyedJoe in

today's talk was really somethin'.

so much so that i felt compelled to post this during the wt study.... i didn't pay attention to the theme, but where i to title the talk it would be "logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.".

that's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, i'm sure.. it starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims.

OneEyedJoe

You're absolutely right. I guess writing up my thoughts on the "parroted s***" is my way of cleaning it off.

16

Today's public talk: shameless indoctrination

by OneEyedJoe in

today's talk was really somethin'.

so much so that i felt compelled to post this during the wt study.... i didn't pay attention to the theme, but where i to title the talk it would be "logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.".

that's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, i'm sure.. it starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims.

OneEyedJoe

DD the only reason I'm still going is for my wife. I'd be fine if my family summed me, and I don't have many friends in, but I feel like I owe her as much to try to make something like a graceful exit. I think I've given up trying to wake her up before I leave, but I want her to at least have some understanding of why I'm leaving.

This sort of talk (really, just about every talk) always used to irritate me as I was always aware of the fallacy and fear mongering, but now that the "it's for a good reason" justification is out of my head, I just can't stand it.

16

Today's public talk: shameless indoctrination

by OneEyedJoe in

today's talk was really somethin'.

so much so that i felt compelled to post this during the wt study.... i didn't pay attention to the theme, but where i to title the talk it would be "logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.".

that's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, i'm sure.. it starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims.

OneEyedJoe

Today's talk was really somethin'. So much so that I felt compelled to post this during the WT study...

I didn't pay attention to the theme, but where I to title the talk it would be "Logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.". That's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, I'm sure.

It starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims. Already I'm thinking "oh, this is gonna be good." The example was given of someone claiming that a strawberry wasn't technically a berry, but bananas are, the speaker says "that may sound hard to believe." He then goes on to describe in generic terms the concept of a literal Satan as a personal entity, saying that even some theologians endorse the view that Satan is just a metaphors for evil. His proof that Satan is a literal person was to quote a few scriptures, all of which where some variation of "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.". The fun part was that in each case, if you replaced "Satan" with "evil" the scripture still made sense, and sometimes it made more sense that the scripture was using the devil as a metaphors for human tendency towards evil. He then asserted that if you believed in the idea of Satan being a metaphor for evil, you'd have to throw out all the teachings of Jesus, the apostles and a few others because they said he was a person (even though that wasn't necessarily the case). I've never heard such a compelling argument to believe that Satan isnt a real person! He sums up this topic by asserting (in what's known as an appeal to consequences) that without a personal entity of Satan, you have no satisfying answers for such evil as rape, murder warfare, etc. Not to mention the fact that as an atheist, I've found quite satisfying answers to the world's conditions.

Next up he goes into a long tirade about pop music, TV shows, the occult, etc. (BTW, we're now 15-20 minutes in and no scriptures read from the bible) on the topic of the occult, he asks if we may watch movies or TV shows featuring the occult and say that it doesn't affect you because you only see it as a story of fiction. Then he directs us to the first scripture of the day: 2 Corinthians 11:3, which read in the context of his talk seems to be a word of caution about how sneaky Satan is and warning not to be tempted by him. The problem is, that if you read the next verse, it is clearly a warning against being tempted by others who preach a version of Jesus that doesn't match what paul preached. Now, who do we know of that preaches a version oof Jesus that's not supported by scripture? Just saying...

He closes with some strong phobia indoctrination. He asks us to imagine (a common technique used to bypass critical thinking) being in a storm cellar while an EF-5 tornado rages outside. He asks, "are you tempted to open the hatch and peak outside to see if it's really as dangerous as you're told?" My thought was that of I was born in the cellar, and never heard any wind raging outside, yeah I might be tempted to look out. Not to see if the storm was as dangerous as I was told, but to see if it even existed. You probably know where he was going - we're safe in "the organization" and shouldn't be tempted by anything in the world, no matter how innocent it may seem. So, if you leave the organization (or so much as watch an episode of the walking dead), its the same as walking into a tornado.

I really need to get out of this cult. I can't stand listening to this BS much longer.