hello everyone!just a little background info, i haven't been to a meeting in over a year.
my wife has asked me to go with her tonight to help watch our son since it's the circuit overseers visit...my wife wants to be able to pay attention and get something out of the meeting since our son is 1yr old he can be a handful some times.. a few things of note about the situation:.
- i'm going to the meeting no matter what.
"We missed you"
"That's strange I haven't missed a meeting in the past year!"
Yes! That reminds me of my favorite line to use while I was still going to some meetings. If someone noticed that I'd "missed" a few meetings, I would just quote the movie Office Space: "I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob."
it seems like the watchtower is still encouraging "theocratic warfare".
in the no.1 watchtower of 2016, they (ironically) printed an article on honesty.here is something they said:"lyingwhat is it?
saying something false to someone who is entitledto know the truth.
if you believe humans evolved, and were not created, why would having a hymen help, especially as no other mammal has one?
if you believe humans were created by {a} god, or intelligent beings with advanced technology, what was the reason for a hymen?
i'm interested to hear your thoughts on this unusual subject, not many people talk about..
Why the need to be condescending with people who wish to engage in a friendly discussion?
As he said, in this day and age, ignorance is a choice. Ignorance is not something that deserves respect. It's one thing to be ignorant privately but to go proclaiming something as a reason to doubt evolution after doing absolutely no investigation (the lack of investigation is apparent because there is plenty of readily available information explaining why the differences in the sexes is in no way a problem for evolution) is inexcusable.
Professor Cofty, where did the first living cell come from? How did it originate?
This is one of the watchtower's favorite tricks - conflating abiogenesis and evolution. Evolution makes no claims about the origin of the first living cell (and if you'll look at Cofty's post, you'll see that he did not either). Again, though, if you'd bother to do a little investigation on your own you'd find that there are several different plausible explanations for this that are backed up by observable evidence. Certainly more convincing than the observable evidence for the claim "god did it."
[note: copy/pasted this with permission from reddit.].
once each year, the governing body writes a direct letter to the congregation members included in the yearbook.
in his annual message to the catholic faithful (urbi et orbi) delivered on christmas day, the pope spoke about world peace, terrorism, and the refugee crisis.
so why has the growth flatlined?
why is less time spent in the ministry?
why have aux pios droped by 1/3rd?.
1. Agreed - we've seen many new ones on the forum cite one broadcast or another as their final straw. This is definitely having, at best, a polarizing effect on the R/F.
2. Probably not so much. For one thing the TMS getting eliminated happened after the end of the service year so it would have no impact on numbers. The elimination of bookstudy probably has had a small impact, but not because people are unhappy with the reduced emphasis on teaching, but more because there's less indoctrination and that will allow a few to break free.
3. Agreed - When the cart witnessing was introduced I didn't know TTATT, but it struck me as very cult-like and seemed like busy work that would not be productive at all. This, along with the general apathy about being productive in the ministry, was difficult to reconcile with the idea that we're preaching to save lives and that its the most important work to be done.
4. Not sure. I think a lot of JWs get caught up in the "easy time" that they get from just dropping off flyers and not having to talk to people as much that they don't realize how stupid the whole affair is. Maybe those who are seriously doubting already, but this doesn't seem like one of those things that would be someone's final straw.
5. Not sure on this one either. I don't know that I would say that JWs have gotten any poorer in the last few years, so I don't think this really accounts for the stagnation/decline. If anything I've seen more and more JWs pursuing better jobs because, on some level, they're aware of the possibility that the cult could be wrong about the nearness of armageddon.
6. Definitely. There's always new and more interesting things going on in the world and the "distractions" will only grow while the cult recruitment stays largely the same. Another aspect of the apathy, I think, is that the response from the ministry is dwindling to nothing. No one likes to feel like they're wasting their time, and when someone does feel that they are the typical response is to give up.
hello everyone!just a little background info, i haven't been to a meeting in over a year.
my wife has asked me to go with her tonight to help watch our son since it's the circuit overseers visit...my wife wants to be able to pay attention and get something out of the meeting since our son is 1yr old he can be a handful some times.. a few things of note about the situation:.
- i'm going to the meeting no matter what.
In the future you might suggest that you simply watch your kid at home and let her go to the cult meeting by herself. Aaaaaand that's the end of my unsolicited advice.
On to the solicited advice:
When people say "We miss you" I always try to respond with something like "Really? I haven't heard from you - you should come by for a visit and we can have a few drinks." In my mind the goal is to make them as uncomfortable as possible and to force them to realize that they've just lied to you - they don't miss you, they've just been told to tell you that they miss you by countless talks over the years. In most cases, the people telling me that they miss me are folks that I've literally never had a conversation with (in one case it was someone that I've never spoken a word to and know nothing about her beyond her last name). Because these people really don't know me, the suggestion that they come by for drinks tends to make them very uncomfortable.
"Are you going to start coming back?" - My response would just be "No" said in a firm, decisive voice.
"Wasn't that a wonderful meeting?" - "You know, I really can't say that I enjoyed any of it."
I guess your responses would really depend on your goal, though. In my case I don't care if any of them shuns me, and in some ways I'd prefer it. If you're looking to keep some relationships intact then just keep your mouth shut.
in the 60's and 70's you would hear these comments from non- believers,.
my neighbor is a jw and they are good people, my sister is a jw and i admire their.
dedication.
When I was still active I'd frequently get people at the door telling us that they appreciate the work we're doing (after telling us in no uncertain terms that they're not interested in a discussion). But I live in a particularly religious area, so that probably weighs in heavily.
Since leaving, I've told two people I work with about my JW past. The first was mostly unfamiliar with JWs (thought JWs were essentially Amish haha) with the exception of the memory of throwing a surprise birthday party for a friend and being confused by the the fact that it made the JW friend very uncomfortable. So I think in this case JWs were mainly viewed as irrelevant.
Later, I was in conversation with another coworker and somehow the subject of cults came up (not my doing at all) and while the topic of conversation was primarily scientology, she interjected "Or like the jehovah's wittnesses - I just want to grab them and say 'what makes you think this [religion] is a good idea?'" Obviously from the context she didn't have a positive thought in relation to the cult, and when she said this her tone was that of someone who was dealing with an insane person. (Of course I took this opportunity to pretend I was a JW and make her feel really bad for a few minutes before telling her that I'd left and substantiating her thought that they're a harmful cult)
So from my limited experience, the opinion of JWs (at least in the college-educated under-30 crowd) ranges from "who are they again?" to "what the hell is the matter with those insane cultists?"
so, spent a fair bit of time on the stats.. the 2010-2015 numbers are available here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0bwv5uvzb3-67axpzavk0m0nttfe&usp=sharing.
also there are spreadsheets of: ratios, peak-pubs, and the best is a combo of ratios, peak pubs & average pubs.. you can play with these by "select all" and "sort" according to your preference.. if you would like any other combination, i would try to create it and post it for you.. of interest:.
as has been noted, the biggest standout of 2015 is the increase of only 18k in peak pubs while having 260k baptized.
on another thread shepherdless sketched out the past business model of jws and its demise.
until 1990 they were a straightforward publishing business with the tremendous advantage of free labour in production and free distribution agents.
since then they've been relying on donations for literature to keep the old model going.
The only money I see them making on the carts is from the "suggested donation" when they sell the carts to the congregation. A recent article of theirs has stated they've sold over 165k carts, so even if they're only making $10 profit on each one they've made a pretty good chunk of change.
How this balances out with the literature that gets taken from the carts without being paid for, I have no idea. I'd guess they're giving away more literature, but then again everyone talks about how they just sit there and everyone ignores them so maybe not.
any body know?
