Posts by OneEyedJoe

34

What do you think is the source of your consciousness? Can it be copied or transferred?

by EndofMysteries in

this seems to be a question that even scientifically is still in the air.

right now your consciousness, is it the physical part of the brain?

the electrical signals in the brain?

OneEyedJoe

It seems that this is more a discussion of theseus' paradox than it is anything to do with consciousness specifically.

34

What do you think is the source of your consciousness? Can it be copied or transferred?

by EndofMysteries in

this seems to be a question that even scientifically is still in the air.

right now your consciousness, is it the physical part of the brain?

the electrical signals in the brain?

Consciousness is an emergent property of a very complex system made up of small pieces that follow simple rules. Just like a flock of birds or a school of fish seems to be something more than the sum of its parts, so does consciousness. But that doesn't mean it actually is something more.

52

Does the WT attract needy dysfunctional type of people?

by William Penwell in

in your personal experience, do you think that the wt attracts needy types of people?

over the years, my experience is that they do attract very needy, insecure, dysfunctional, types.

i had an acquaintance that i just basically cut off.

OneEyedJoe

Mostly it "attracts" people who were born to JW parents. Then the JW upbringing probably creates a lot of dysfunctional personality traits in people. Though I will say that literally every convert I've met is either obviously a little "off" or they have some past that makes them an obvious mark for a cult (alcoholic, displaced by natural disaster, immigrant with no local family, etc).

24

"You don't go to church in a Kingdom Hall"

by stephanie61092 in

"you don't go to church in a kingdom hall" was stated during the public talk yesterday.

the speaker then elaborated that "people who go to church, go to fulfill a spiritual obligation.

coming to the kingdom hall is coming to learn.

OneEyedJoe

Was he suggesting that there are JWs that go to meetings for any reason other than obligation? Alls I know is that anytime there's snow on the ground and meeting gets canceled, no one is disappointed.

12

The Pope is more like Christ than the GB

by StarTrekAngel in

just a quick line to share something i heard in the news yesterday.

while we may disagree with many of the doctrines of the catholic church, there was something interesting.. the subject was regarding the view by the church on abortion and contraceptives.

while the pope insisted in the absolute and immutable evil of terminating a pregnancy, he said that considering the risks presented by the zika virus, women in south america should consider contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies that could end up in a child born with defects.

OneEyedJoe

I like this pope. I mean he still pushes a bronze age superstition, but at least he's almost a humanist in going about it. He even once said that atheists will go to heaven if they're good people. So no need to accept jesus into your hearts, just don't be a dick.

12

Has anyone else collected their money back from local Kingdom Halls for money loaned for construction?

by StoneWall in

jw
friends

just a reminder if you haven't, to get it back before they sell any more halls.even if you're currently da/df you can still collect any monies owed you by the kingdom hall as far as loans go.we were able to get back $1000 that my mom had loaned the local hall for a loan to build new one.it was documented by the paper that had been given each publisher back then on how much they could/would be willing to give as an outright donation or a loan.

the loan was to be paid back whenever the publisher requested it.

(not a specific date)i can't help but feel that a lot of the old timers that loaned monies to the society and/or k-halls have been forgot about by them or their families.

OneEyedJoe

The loan was to be paid back whenever the publisher requested it. (not a specific date)

That's clever. It appears as though they're being super flexible (certainly more flexible than "worldly" institutions which would agree to a rigid payment plan) and making sure you'll be able to get the money back should you have an urgent need, but in reality it puts the ball in the JW's court for securing payment and forces them to do go through the uncomfortable act of asking for money. And especially for small loans, they're sure to be forgotten.

How terribly manipulative.

34

Watchtower go full on propaganda!

by David Graham in

i see the watchtower are getting extremely desperate now.http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/25503-injustice-abounds-for-our-dear-russian-brothers/check out the professionally edited video, using professional equipment!

OneEyedJoe

There are enough confessions in their own textbooks to show that they have no problem with breaking the law by distributing banned literature.

This.

They love to give the examples of police searching people's houses or KHs for literature and not finding it even though it was sitting in plain sight, and they claim this is evidence of god's blessing. They can't have it both ways - either god is blessing them and they're getting away with having banned literature or they've removed all banned literature to comply with the law (as claimed in the video). It's one or the other.

In the video they try to show that authorities are planting evidence but they give no support to this. They show one instance where a cop has a book (bible teach) that he reasonably claims was to be used to quickly identify banned literature. The JWs claim that his intention was to plant this during his search. Was he? Maybe. Do they have any compelling evidence of that? No.

Second case they show is of someone planting books prior to an inspection. Was this authorities planting evidence? It's later revealed in passing that it was a former study, not police, that planted the books. Likely a tip was called in to the police about the banned literature - are they to blame for following up on a tip? It's hardly persecution when the police rightly perform their job and inspect a group that's known to have broken the law in the past. An interesting question, though, is where did this former study get the literature? Only place that makes sense is that he got it from a JW. So maybe they don't keep it at the kingdom hall, maybe they've just got a good hiding spot, but they're still breaking the law.

Last case of supposed planting of evidence by authorities is completely without any basis. They say that police did an inspection and found banned materials and it is assumed ("most think" it was planted - 4:04 in the video) that they were planted because the ever-righteous JWs had gotten rid of their banned literature. But again, this is clearly crap because the JWs have the literature and proudly relate stories of successfully bypassing bans. Maybe most JWs there think it was planted, I think it wasn't. Who cares unless they can show some evidence of wrongdoing?

Having said that, I don't agree with a ban on literature. I think freedom of speech is important, and I don't think the russians are going about this the right way in their (well intentioned) effort to keep their population safe from this dangerous cult. But even so, it looks to me like it's more likely that this video is wildly deceptive and the problem of planted evidence is not what they're making it out to be.

41

Toasting is Pagan - How many contradictions can fit in 2 pages, I found 5?

by jwfacts in

the watchtower 2007 feb 15 pp.30-31 explains why jehovah's witnesses are not to toast.

what is astounding is that for each point they then go on an explain why the point is irrelevant, yet still conclude toasting is wrong.

what did people think when reading this?

OneEyedJoe

OLI - You're probably right. I guess the rules are a bit of a double-edged sword. In my case, I was always ashamed of being a JW on some level because I knew sort of instinctively that it was wrong but couldn't find the hard justification in order to take action (largely due to the information control and phobia indoctrination) so my strategy in situations like this where the rules came up was always to avoid participating but do so in a way that was inconspicuous. If someone clincked their glasses, I was busy with something and awkwardly fumbled until I'd missed the moment. If someone was having a birthday, I would say I was on a diet and didn't want to eat cake. But you're right, the absurd rules definitely give the zealots in the cult more opportunity to segue into a sales pitch.

41

Toasting is Pagan - How many contradictions can fit in 2 pages, I found 5?

by jwfacts in

the watchtower 2007 feb 15 pp.30-31 explains why jehovah's witnesses are not to toast.

what is astounding is that for each point they then go on an explain why the point is irrelevant, yet still conclude toasting is wrong.

what did people think when reading this?

OneEyedJoe

Thinking about this a little - what's the difference between a wedding ring and toasting or clincking glasses? I submit that the difference is one of separation from society - failure to wear a wedding ring wouldn't be that noticeable to most and wouldn't really cause you to feel like an outsider in the world. In fact it may draw a little extra attention from those that think you're single. This is to be avoided, so wedding rings are considered good.

Toasting, on the other hand, is something that most in the group won't notice that you don't do if you're out with normal people. But you notice. You see them do it and you know you can't join it. You're intensely aware that you are not like these people. They are different. You don't fit in. Even if you're not happy as a JW, you have no where else to go because you don't belong with these people either.

You can pretty easily go through the list of things they reject on account of pagan origins and the ones they don't in spite of their pagan origins and this holds true for pretty much all of them. If it's something that would go pretty unnoticed either way it's OK to do, but if not doing something makes you feel like an outsider, you can't do it.

41

Toasting is Pagan - How many contradictions can fit in 2 pages, I found 5?

by jwfacts in

the watchtower 2007 feb 15 pp.30-31 explains why jehovah's witnesses are not to toast.

what is astounding is that for each point they then go on an explain why the point is irrelevant, yet still conclude toasting is wrong.

what did people think when reading this?

OneEyedJoe

You missed one - they end by including that JWs shouldn't be seen as seeking aid from a superhuman force. Just what in the hell do they think prayer is?

Edit: Nevermind, I missed where you mentioned that. To me that's possibly the stupidest part of the article. It's like they're writing it as though JWs are atheist or something.