I don't see this forum as hostile to believers. Facts are hostile to belief, though, and there are several here that prefer to have discussions based on fact. There are also many that don't like to let statements that are unsupported by evidence stand unchallenged. That can also be hostile to belief if that belief isn't based in fact.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Moments Of Clarity As A Born In JW
by JW_Rogue in-when i was in my early teens we were studying the revelation book for the second time.
the first time i didn't understand much but the second time i remember that my family had quite a lengthy discussion about the lake of fire.
they were trying make sense of the scripture and the jw interpretation.
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OneEyedJoe
I actually went to college and continued as an auxiliary pioneer, I think for a short period they relaxed on the higher education thing as long you weren't leaving home to go live in a dorm.
Yup. I was lucky enough to be of college age during the belief period in which it was 8 conscience matter. When they started try demonize it again, i couldn't help but refute every one of their arguments based on personal experience. I was not subjected to pressure to do drugs or engage in sexual acts (well I was pressured to have sex, but only by my own biology) or anything else. My education even paid for itself in the first year of my employment in the industry. I was, however, taught to think logically and exposed to worldviews that went contrary to that of a JW. Looking at it objectively, I saw that their stance only made sense if they were trying to keep people from looking at their doctrine from the perspective of someone that isn't already indoctrinated.
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Moments Of Clarity As A Born In JW
by JW_Rogue in-when i was in my early teens we were studying the revelation book for the second time.
the first time i didn't understand much but the second time i remember that my family had quite a lengthy discussion about the lake of fire.
they were trying make sense of the scripture and the jw interpretation.
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OneEyedJoe
In honor of Kurt Vonnegut, I call these vin-dits.
I remember the talk about the statue of Daniel and thinking "that's new?" Only to find out that this was something of a flip flop back to a previously held doctrine. Maybe that's not entirely accurate (I never actually researched it) but it made me realize that new light wasn't really important since it would only change again one day.
My moments of clarity were mostly with regards to shunning and the higher education ban. Everytime i listened to speakers extol the virtues if either of these, I found myself thinning "if I were leading a cult, that's definitely something I'd include." It's amazing how long one can continue in the cult even while suspecting the truth.
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No Reason For JWs To Go To The MIdweek Meeting (CLAM)
by JW_Rogue ineverything that is done at the midweek meeting can now be done at home.
the videos are online, the first talk is scripted, the bible highlights are scripted.
you could get the same experience by just reading and watching the material from your tablet.
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OneEyedJoe
If it were really about teaching/learning about Jehovah you'd be absolutely right. It's a social club in which everyone submits to a few hours of uncomfortable and boring lecturing in order to have common ground.
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Good news to Judgement message?
by punkofnice ini noticed in the 'bunker video(tm)' from the latest a$$emb£y/con-vention whatever it's called, that the patronising bloke with the greasy hair, said that the great tribulation(tm) started after their message changed from good news to judgement (i think he did, anyway).. does the watchtower corporation really think that anyone listens to their propaganda?.
do they really think they are able to stand behind a trolley and give a message of judgement?.
how do they think the message will change?.
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OneEyedJoe
I could be wrong but I don't think they have any intention of changing the message. I think they like to just give little tidbits of details about what the GT will be like (and done in a way that requires no citing of scriptures) so that the members will get excited and it will make things seem more real to them. A specific future threat creates more fear than a vague one.
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"how awful it must be to be dying as an apostate!"
by purrpurr ini heard today about a former jw/now apostate who is dying in hospital.
this information was accompanied by the comment of "wouldn't be awful to be lying there in hospital,dying as an apostate!
knowing that you have no hope!?
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OneEyedJoe
I'd rather die an apostate than live as a JW.
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The best way for a witness to wake up, is to simply read the societies own older publications!
by stuckinarut2 inonce again the society is on a push to scare witnesses away from doing any research, or "stumbling" upon any "apostate" material (from workmates, neighbors, or online).
however, the most enlightening, mind blowing and eye opening things are found simple by reading the early publications themselves!.
read how ct russel, (the supposed channel god was using) had the most far fetched and laughable ideas, such as obtaining pivotal dates by measuring the pyramids of egypt!...
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OneEyedJoe
What did it for me was actually reading stuff they've quoted in the original context. That doesn't even require sourcing hard-to-find old publications, and in many cases they actually (brazenly!) cited the source, practically daring you to fact-check.
Honestly, I don't know if reading CTR's stuff would've actually woken me up. It's all so obviously insane and idiotic that I would probably have convinced myself that an apostate wrote it and was trying to pass it off as having been written by CTR. Since it's so old, it would be difficult to verify authenticity (at least to the satisfaction of a paranoid, indoctrinated cult member) so it would be easy for the indoctrinated mind to dismiss.
Everybody's different...what does it for one person won't even make the next guy flinch.
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Need some help: Existential crisis in full swing
by Freeandclear inso is anyone else having an existential crisis after becoming fully awake?
let me explain.
about 2 years ago i read coc, still believed and tried to get back in da troof.
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OneEyedJoe
It can be tricky, can't it? I tend to agree with most everything you've said about religion - mostly a way to make the weak feel somehow empowered, those without control to feel things are being controlled. It has been accurately described as the opium of the people. So what is one to do when one kicks the opium habit?
I was lucky, my mind has the tendency to wander and I always spent a lot of time (even while in the cult, and I suspect this was a big part of my eventual departure from it) contemplating hypotheticals - including things like "if god doesn't exist is there still any value to morality" or "if there's no afterlife, is life worth living." Things like that. So by the time that I actually realized I was an atheist, I'd already pretty much come to terms with all that entails.
One thing in your post stood out - the characterization of life as pain punctuated by happiness. I think a lot of life is about your outlook. If you really think your life is mostly pain, then you need to start looking at the reasons why and addressing them as best you can. Maybe your life does suck, but maybe it's just that you're focusing on the wrong things. If, as you pointed out, all there really is to this life is trying to enjoy it and not be too much of a dick to everyone else, then there's no time like the present to start trying to make your life look like you want it to. Also, while you're taking action to that end, you'll have less time to ponder the meaning of it all which would probably be beneficial for you at the moment.
I also would like to state that I wholly reject the notion that the brevity of life makes it somehow not worthwhile at all. When I buy a brand new car that I optioned just the way I wanted it and I'm inhaling that new car smell, I know somewhere in my mind that this car will one day be in a junkyard crushed and shredded for recycling. Should I not have bought the car? Is the car completely valueless because of that knowledge? Chicks love it when you give them flowers, even though they will be in the trash in a few days. I can enjoy a meal even though I won't be eating forever. Brevity may limit the value that something has (i.e. a car that will die tomorrow is worth less than one that will last 10 years) but it doesn't make things completely valueless.
Regarding the notion of "nothing you do matters, so what's the point?" - this is largely up to you. IMO we all have the freedom to define the meaning of our lives. You don't have to pick one thing. You can devote your life to a family, to having new experiences, to developing some skill or talent, to learning new things, or any combination of any number of things. You don't have to look to anyone else to tell you the meaning of your life. If the purpose you chose isn't doing the trick, pick something else. Just keep going as long as it's fun, then when it stops being fun figure out why and find a way to make life fun again.
Also, I would like to point out that a little bit of nihilism can actually make life a lot easier. When you screw something up, just remember that nothing really matters anyway. When you get something right, maybe it doesn't matter but it still makes you feel good, so who cares if it doesn't matter?
I would definitely encourage you to try to ease off the drinking and find some hobbies or something that keep you interested. Remember that there's no rush, and you don't have to figure out this existential stuff right now, and it's probably not super helpful if that's what you devote all your time to. Find some things to put some energy towards and you may find that the existential crisis resolves itself as you realize that every day is worth living on its own merits.
And for some levity:
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I got a new JW tract on my front door called "Who really controls the world?"
by Iamallcool inhave you received the same thing on your door?
i wish that i am still at the gated community where i lived there for more than 6 years, i received zero jw garbage!
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OneEyedJoe
Well I can't find a picture of the old one, but it looked pretty similar. Might've been called "Who really rules the world." Same gist.
The one you got was released at the 2014 convention with, I think, 4 other tracts. They're the same ol' crap, though.
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I got a new JW tract on my front door called "Who really controls the world?"
by Iamallcool inhave you received the same thing on your door?
i wish that i am still at the gated community where i lived there for more than 6 years, i received zero jw garbage!
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OneEyedJoe
That's not a new one, that one has been around for decades.
Edit: looked it up on jw.org and I guess it is a new version of the old one.
