Wouldn't be surprised if they stop reporting it this year. Especially after another poster here said that at the convention the person giving the closing talk said that the number of partakers didn't matter. They'll probably plant this seed a time or two before quietly removing the stat from the yearbook maybe with a half page explanation.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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20
Who can guess the number closest to memorial partakers ?
by Chook inmy punt 16144 , do you like my last three numbers !.
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15
boyfriends jehovah witness mom
by whatisthis12 inmy boyfriend is an ex new jehovah witness and today i got a message from one of his friends asking if i could delete a comment he wrote on one of my pictures because my boyfriends mom is harassing him about it.
he also basically told me that she has people who added me just to view my profile and let her know!!!!
she also sends him messages and pictures from the watchtower.
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OneEyedJoe
You really need to talk to your boyfriend and come up with a plan of action. As I and others said in one of your other threads, the first thing to do is to make 100% sure your boyfriend knows its a cult and is never going back and that he's made this decision based on immovable facts. If that's not the case, you need to get him there quickly or walk away. Next up you need to have an open talk about his family. He is or was a JW so he'll know how to expect JWs to behave just like us, but furthermore he knows the people involved personally so he'll probably have greater insight into what to expect than any of us here will. It's a very bad sign that you have to learn about this all from strangers on the internet when the person with whom you ought to have close/open communication knows more about the situation than any of us do. You need to work on your communication or your relationship is going to fail with or without cult drama.
Once you've laid everything out with him then you need to decide what to do. Do you really want to stick around with him and all the cult drama and potentially be dealing with it on some level for the rest of your (or his parent's) life? Don't be afraid to be honest with yourself about what you want out of this. If you really want to stay with him, then that's great, but if you don't then that's fine too and you'll be doing no one any favors if you stick with it when its not really what you want. Again, if he's not completely resolute in his feelings about the cult, you need to include in your decision process the very real risk that he'll go back to it at some point (maybe a year, maybe in 20 years) and completely up-end your life together.
As others have said, this behavior from his mother is very typical of a JW in her situation. In some cases the only way to stop it is to cut off the relationship. Some JWs are able to adhere to strict boundaries if you set them and fight to maintain them. It all depends on their maturity level and objectivity (sometimes a JW will have just enough objectivity to see that their behavior, though motivated by their religious beliefs, is neither rational nor productive). Again, your boyfriend will have a better chance of guessing how this will go.
Good luck to you.
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What religions/organizations aren't a cult?
by Jules Saturn inso we've already established that most religions can be classified as high control groups, we can name the wbts, church of scientology, lds, etc.
the list goes on and on.
but are there any religions or organizations that aren't classified as a high control group or aren't as bad as the ones i've just mentioned?
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OneEyedJoe
While JWs / WTBTS certainly has many of the hallmarks of a cult , I sometimes think it is better understood in terms of a commercial religious literature publishing and ( with that trade in something of a decline , increasingly nowadays ) real estate trading business that exploits free labour.
You can best understand the business decisions of the WTS by viewing it as a publisher turned real-estate empire, but you can best understand it's control over and negative impact on it's volunteer work force by viewing it as a cult.
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What religions/organizations aren't a cult?
by Jules Saturn inso we've already established that most religions can be classified as high control groups, we can name the wbts, church of scientology, lds, etc.
the list goes on and on.
but are there any religions or organizations that aren't classified as a high control group or aren't as bad as the ones i've just mentioned?
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OneEyedJoe
So we've already established that most religions can be classified as high control groups
I can't say I agree with your premise.
I think most denominations of christianity probably don't qualify as being a cult in my mind - even though all use some of the same methods of control as cults do. You'd be well served by thinking of cult more as a spectrum - some groups are more or less culty but all are at least a little culty.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any group that doesn't exert some form of control that's similar to methods used by a cult. Because cults use an amplified version of social influence to control people, you'd expect to find diluted versions of those methods in any social interaction. So, yes, literally every religion (and bridge club or book club or workplace or political party) will have some elements of cult influence, but in most cases these do not go to the point of becoming what we would usually identify as a cult because their influence hasn't gotten extreme. Maybe if you leave your book club you won't talk to those people as often, but they won't shun you completely. Maybe members of a political party discourage spending too much time investigating alternative ideologies, but they won't kick you out if you do and come back with new ideas for discussion.
Edit: it might be worth adding that I say this as an atheist: just because all religions are factually wrong, doesn't mean they're a cult.
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CounselIling for Ex Cult Members
by Disassociated Lady 2 ini wanted to ask those of you who were born into the jws and eventually left as an adult, whether any of you have had any counselling?
i know from experience that being programmed by a cult since birth does not give us the social skills and knowledge to function and interact with people in the outside world as we were taught to avoid it.
those of you that have had counselling, do you feel that it has helped you?
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OneEyedJoe
I spent about 8 months with a therapist while I was still married. Most of my time there was spent trying to save my marriage, but some of it focused on assimilating into society and developing normal relationships with normal people and getting past feeling like an outsider or worrying about being seen as weird or whatever else.
It definitely helped - just the practice of talking to a "worldly" person (the therapist/counselor) can help.
First, if you're facing severe distress (thoughts of suicide or depression/anxiety that makes it difficult to function on a day-to-day basis) you should seek help right away - waiting will only make things worse and could be life threatening. You don't seem to fall into this, but I just wanted to put that disclaimer out there.
Assuming you're doing "ok" but just want help to move forward my advice would be to first make sure you've educated yourself on how the cult has controlled you and ways that it's influenced you that you might not realize. Books I'd recommend are freedom of mind or combating cult mind control (Steve Hassan - probably would be fine with one or the other), and EXiting the JW Cult: A Healing Handbook - this has a lot of helpful stuff that's very JW specific (written by a woman that became a therapist after leaving the cult). The reason I suggest doing this before you start seeing a therapist is because it can definitely save you a lot of time (and a therapist's time can be costly) because you'll be going in with a better understanding of how you've been affected and what you want to work on the most, and you'll be better able to articulate it to the therapist. Most therapists won't have much, if any, experience with cult victims, so you want to educate yourself so that you can educate them most efficiently. If you're already read up and have a strong understanding of how social pressure, emotional manipulation, and propaganda were used to control you, then you're on good footing to start working with a therapist that might not be as familiar with cult control mechanisms.
My next piece of advice is to make sure you find a therapist that you mesh well with. Any good therapist will tell you from the outset that they want you to feel free to move on and work with someone else if you don't feel it's a good match. Some might be a little resistant to your characterization of JWs as a cult due to the great care the cult has taken to maintain a good image to the world - be prepared for that. They'll probably come around after some discussion about why you categorize the JWs as a cult, but you'll need to be prepared to articulate it (which is another reason some self education is useful). If they put up too much of a fight (I haven't encountered this, but I've heard a few tales of therapists, especially religious ones, that are reluctant to accept that damage was done by the cult) then you move on. It's just like hiring someone for any job - they might be a great candidate but if they don't fit in the company culture or if personalities clash, they won't be as effective.
Lastly, you should know that 95% of the work of therapy takes place outside of the therapist's office. You're going to need to be ready to work on things yourself, and don't expect it to be super easy. It'll take work and commitment. Don't get discouraged if just talking to someone an hour a week doesn't lead to some major breakthrough. They'll help you with strategies to use, but the real benefit comes from going out into the world and trying them and learning from experience.
I wish you the best of luck in your cult recovery!
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Reject WT Thinking - November 2017 WT article commented (p. 20)
by Master_Bob ini really liked this kind of articles when back in borg, because they address the issues i was most concerned about.
or at least i thought that they address, because they don't.
i marked all the deceptive techniques and logical manipulations they use as a mental exercise and would like to share with you.
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OneEyedJoe
Their use of the phrase "fog of information" seems particularly Orwellian to me - they use their newspeak to reverse the meaning of words. Suddenly information is confusing, not illuminating. Just like the 'slave' is the one in control and a 'privilege' is just another task heaped upon your shoulders and 'truth' is really a body of lies.
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Latest Study Watchtower - JW's NEED to confess to elders
by The Fall Guy inwatchtower november 2017, page 10, paragraph 8 - "today, a christian guilty of serious sin needs to seek the help of congregation elders to recover.
) why is this so important?
first, the arrangement for elders to handle cases of serious sin comes from jehovah, (2nd lie!
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OneEyedJoe
I read one bible commentary that said that this verse is talking about literally sick people. Like those needing to be healed. And that they believed prayers of others could make them well. Notice that sins being forgiven is tacked on at the end as a side note. The main point of this scripture is about healing the sick.
I think that's the only honest reading of that scripture. And it makes sense, too, because these writings are all building on top of stories about Jesus and the apostles working miracles and healing people, so why wouldn't there still be some residual faith healing going on? Of course it seems ridiculous to anyone with half a brain these days so that passage gets interpreted as figurative (just like the four corners of the earth, 7 days of creation, and so many more unreasonable passages).
It's also pretty clear that the bit about confessing sins is encouraging a culture of openness and honesty wherein people are up front about things they do wrong and in return they're also willing to be quick to forgiveness. This goes along with the frequent admonition to refrain from judgement - it's a lot harder to be open about passing judgement on someone when everyone knows all the times you didn't do so well yourself.
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New Announcement At The 2017 - DF'd People To Sit At The Back Of The Hall
by pale.emperor inhas anyone else heard this?
a poster on another thread said it's a new rule brought in at this years convention.. last year they were told to shun even non df people and now this?
a religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?.
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OneEyedJoe
I always thought that this was existing policy - I've never seen a DFed person sit anywhere other than the back row or in the back room during meetings.
A religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?
Why not? If the DFed person is at the cult meetings it shows that they either still believe it's the truth or they at least are trying to be reinstated for family. In either case it means that the cult has something on them and if they don't obey it doesn't give them what they want.
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12
so confused!!
by whatisthis12 inis it possible to keep a somewhat relationship with your family if they are witnesses and have a "worldly" girlfriend?
i just posted a post, and found this site to be very helpful.
sorry to repost but my other thread brought up some other questions.
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OneEyedJoe
I'll drop another vote in the box for "he's not mentally out of the cult."
Based on the conversations I've seen and been a part of here over the years, it would be very unusual for someone in his position to consider going to a convention just to see his sister's part on it if he really understood the extent of the disgusting nature of the cult. Maybe he doesn't believe it right now. But if his reasons for not believing are shaky and based on emotion or personal experience (which cults are really good at getting people to reinterpret), then those reasons could easily come crumbling down at some later time leaving you in a whirlwind of confusion and ultimately having to make difficult decisions about the future of your relationship/family.
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My Boyfriend is a recent Ex Jehovah Witness
by whatisthis12 ini have been dating my boyfriend for almost a year now.
when i met him i had no idea that he was a jehovah witness.
we took a vacation and he lied to his parents about who he was with, and they ended up finding out not only that he way lying, but who i was.
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OneEyedJoe
I came in to say something similar as Lisa just did. Be very wary going forward - many members of this forum are people that married an exJW and had children with them only to watch as the cult recaptured their spouse (and sometimes their kids). It's not uncommon for JWs to leave the cult for one reason or another (usually love, but sometimes they'll leave to escape other restrictions) but never truly understand how they were controlled, and what it really is. Unfortunately this condition often leads to these people returning to the cult during a stressful time (new or failed relationships, birth of a child, death of a family member, relocation, etc). To prevent this, it's important that you have a very honest and frank discussion with him about what he thinks of JWs. Is there any part of him that thinks it might still be "the truth" or does he know it's a cult? Don't accept anything less than certainty that he will never go back. If he gives you this certainty, you should ask for his reasons. You want the reasons for him not going back to have absolutely nothing to do with you. His reasons should be some subset or combination of the ones below (there are others, but they're probably less common and more minor)
- It's an overly controlling doomsday cult that is full of hypocrisy
- It has made many false predictions of the coming of armageddon
- It has caused the unnecessary death of tens of thousands of people by pressuring members to reject life-saving medical treatment
- It continues to put children at risk through it's policies around child sexual abuse
- Its policies on shunning break apart friendships and families and are tantamount to emotional blackmail
- Its leadership generally lies and cheats whenever convenient
- It is an organization obsessed with money, and money only flows up to benefit the leadership and those close to them.
- It uses unethical means of manipulation to control and retain its members
- And, bottom line, there is absolutely no way that it is "the truth" nor could it possibly be "god's organization" nor could it ever have been.
These are the sorts of logical, factual reasons that you need to hear to be sure that he will not eventually want to go back, and want you to go with him. If at that time you have children, he'll do his best to indoctrinate them as well. If his reasons are emotional or personal (he was never happy as a JW, he loves you and you're more important, someone in the cult hurt his feelings and made him mad, etc) then that's an ok starting point, but you need to get him to start reading sites like jwfacts.com, jwsurvey.org, this forum and others. Steve Hassan's books (www.freedomofmind.com) are also informative on how cults in general work and that would also go a long way to helping him to understand what's been done to him and why it's not his fault that he was fooled for as long as he was.
In the end, if he refuses to look at any of that information on JWs and fails to agree with what it is, then my best advice for you is to move on. Continuing the relationship would be putting yourself in an extremely risky situation, practically begging for future heartbreak and turmoil. It's painful advice, but it's much easier to move on now than when you have children with him and he's trying to indoctrinate them into a cult that also happens to be a breeding ground for pedophiles.
I'm aware that what I'm saying here will probably seem extreme, but it pains me to see people get wrapped up in this horrible cult if they could've avoided it with the right information at the right time. I wish you nothing but happiness and the best of luck. Hopefully when you talk to him he'll show that he already understands that it's a false cult and you two will be able to move on together (and hopefully he'll be more forthcoming about things in the future, since it seems he's concealed this from you for some time).