Posts by opusdei1972

31

the Witch of Endor

by Magnum in

1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

then his servants said to him: look!

I have to say that the early church fathers were divided on this point. Justin Martyr thought that he [the spirit] was Samuel, whereas Tertullian held the Watchtower's view. Nevertheless, Tertullian's view was weakly argued like the Watctower.

I am currently not a Bible believer, however, I like to do some "textual criticism". So, I currently admit that the Bible teaches contradictory views, because each writer had his own agenda.

Regards,

opus

31

the Witch of Endor

by Magnum in

1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

then his servants said to him: look!

opusdei1972

I did my own research on this issue, and I concluded that this passage is simply against to the Watchtower's soul-sleep doctrine. The book of Ecclesiasticus says:

And after this he [Samuel] slept, and he made known to the king [Saul], and shewed him the end of his life, and he lifted up his voice from the earth in prophecy to blot out the wickedness of the nation. (Ecclesiasticus 46:23)

This was the interpretation that ancient jews (like Josephus) held about that reading. They did not think that a demon was speaking, but the spirit of Samuel himself. Also, this is the natural reading.

25

Bible Christianity is Holy baloney

by Half banana in

underpinning all the claims of the jw org is a belief in the sanctity of the bible as gods word.

this holy assumption is certainly never challenged by the watchtower and neither does the believer dare to use critical thinking to evaluate the source of his or her beliefs.

the watchtower org, for obvious reasons would not do this as they would need to sell up and hand back the money were they to admit that the bible is just a piece of literature and not divine in origin.

opusdei1972

Phizzy: I am not against religious beliefs per se. However, I am against to authoritarian institutions which use religious dogmas to dominate people. Of course, christian institutions are not unique in it.

I was a Jehovah's witness, and then I was active in a christian forum of ex-witnesses, not long ago. Interestingly, when I noticed the Bible frauds, I shared the Bible contradictions in that forum, and some people of the forum showed their actual christian face by insulting me. One of them, studied theology in a christian seminar, and was very angry by my posts. He could not resist my arguments, and wrote that I am dangerous for those of faith, and he would not chat with me anymore. So, I understood that some ex-witnesses are still mentally witnesses because they are still following some shunning policies of the NT. I also noted that these seminars of theology are intended to teach and defend lies by using scholarly terms, but they are all academic baloney!!!.

I remember when AlanF was invited to that forum for a while, and I enjoyed the debates, though at that time I was still a christian believer.

I am not saying that all christians are fanatic, but if they want to follow strictly the Bible, they had to be.

19

Scan Of Telegram To Hitler

by Bangalore in

scan of telegram to hitler.. .

bangalore.

opusdei1972

I don't think that that telegram was a good way to threaten an evil crazy guy like Hitler. This, of course, caused more angry in him, and more witnesses were tortured for that. Rutherford was in his confortable room threatening Hitler, far away from Germany, so, the german witnesses had to face that challenge, not the president of the Watchtower.

51

CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.

by The Laser Viking in

i am 6th generation.

i have been out for a few years.. back story on the situation:.

i had a co come by while going door-to-door in the neighborhood.

opusdei1972

Show him that quote from the Watchtower, and ask him how could that book containing theological rubbish become a requisite for the position of elder???. You may also ask him for those books which are now "old light", namely, false prophecies and wrong medical advices. Show him the absurdities of the Golden Age Magazine. Note that those books (including the Watchtower and the Golden Age Magazine) were sold to many people (because each of those books had prices). So, the Society expanded its richness thanks to the naivety of many credulous guys who believed in lies. So, you may ask him: don't you think that most of the Society's richness exist because of "old lights"?

51

CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.

by The Laser Viking in

i am 6th generation.

i have been out for a few years.. back story on the situation:.

i had a co come by while going door-to-door in the neighborhood.

opusdei1972

The video "Faith in Action" tells many half-truths. One of them is the scene in which Rutherford presented the Finished Mystery for the first time at Bethel before many members, then some of them became angry on account of the book, and showed angry against Rutherford. This was a lie propagated by Rutherford and his friends, but if you read the transcription of the 1918 trial, Rutherford confessed that the book was not an issue initially in the dispute with the Society's directors. So, that scene is not historical. However, it was after some time that some Bible Students noted the rubbish written in the Finished Mystery, then some elders rejected its use. Accordingly, Rutherford imposed the acceptance of the book as a requisite to be an elder candidate. This was published in the Watchtower of that time:

...the Society has published and is wirlely distributing "The Finished Mystery"-Volume Seven of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES. There is nothing in it out of harmony with the divine plan as revealed. The doctrines there taught are wholesome and clearly in harmony with that of the Lord Jesus Christ and the other six volumes of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES. It is a part of the work of the SOCIETY to give this volume a wide distribution, because it is believed the due time has come for the message to be given against Babylon. A teacher that is opposed to the Seventh Volume, therefore, would be opposed to the SOCIETY'S work, out of harmony with the SOCIETY; and, as a leader, such an one would breed discontent and trouble, rather than establish harmony and peace and development among those of the Lord's people who had already expressed themselves as being in harmony with such Seventh Volume. Hence such an one should not stand for election to the position of elder.(The Watchtower, may 01, 1918, article: "Qualification of Elders", page 6220)

22

You are invited to sit down with the GB members..

by James Mixon in

you have the opportunity to sit and discuss what's on your mind.. what would you tell them??.

my question, do you men have a heart, how do you sleep at nights??.

why do you think jehovah pick you to feed the sheep??.

opusdei1972

They can't resist a debate, because they live in a bubble. They are too protected by a piramidal structure of power. This is why they can make many mistakes, but all of their followers have to obey and admire them. It is one of the most evil and stupid kingdom. The Catholic Church was the same thing not long ago.

25

Bible Christianity is Holy baloney

by Half banana in

underpinning all the claims of the jw org is a belief in the sanctity of the bible as gods word.

this holy assumption is certainly never challenged by the watchtower and neither does the believer dare to use critical thinking to evaluate the source of his or her beliefs.

the watchtower org, for obvious reasons would not do this as they would need to sell up and hand back the money were they to admit that the bible is just a piece of literature and not divine in origin.

opusdei1972

The only thing I am sure is that there is little truth, mixed with too much fiction, in the Gospels. In the past I despised the gnostic gospels, but now I have no more respect for the canonicals. This was a big historical fraud where most of the christian authors wrote falsehood intentionally. Then, few centuries later all were obligated to believe in the orthodox christian lie, otherwise, one would be executed by fire as an apostate. Of course, most of the catholic scholars currently know that many of the NT accounts are not historical, but they admit it in scholarly books. However, unfortunately, we still have dangerous sects like the Watchtower cult, which maintain its people in the most stupid dark age. It's time to expose, not only the Islam, but the whole fraud of christianity.

25

Bible Christianity is Holy baloney

by Half banana in

underpinning all the claims of the jw org is a belief in the sanctity of the bible as gods word.

this holy assumption is certainly never challenged by the watchtower and neither does the believer dare to use critical thinking to evaluate the source of his or her beliefs.

the watchtower org, for obvious reasons would not do this as they would need to sell up and hand back the money were they to admit that the bible is just a piece of literature and not divine in origin.

opusdei1972

The Ebionites were a jewish sect which did not believe that Jesus born of a virgin, and denied his divinity. They regarded Jesus as the Messiah only. So, it tells me that the ebionites may reflect something of the original movement of Jews who followed the historical Jesus. Because the gentile line introduced those pagan elements found in gods like Mithra and Osiris.

25

Bible Christianity is Holy baloney

by Half banana in

underpinning all the claims of the jw org is a belief in the sanctity of the bible as gods word.

this holy assumption is certainly never challenged by the watchtower and neither does the believer dare to use critical thinking to evaluate the source of his or her beliefs.

the watchtower org, for obvious reasons would not do this as they would need to sell up and hand back the money were they to admit that the bible is just a piece of literature and not divine in origin.

opusdei1972

Half banana I can't show you any evidence for the existence of Jesus, because I am far removed from that time. However I can talk to you about some probabilities which maintain my belief that there was at least a historical person called Jesus who was condemned by the romans. Firstly, I admit that 90% of what the Gospels say lacks of historicity. But there must be a historical Jew called Jesus behind it. Otherwise, if he did not exist, then his disciples too. So, it would imply that Paul lied when he said, in the letter to the Galatians, that he met a man called Peter who knew Jesus. Of course, another possibility is that Paul did not exist too, and other person invented the letter to the Galatians so as to invent the meeting between Paul and Peter. Of course, false letters were not unlikely in that time, but I think that if we start to deny the existence of Jesus, we could deny the existence of Paul, Peter, and so on. So, who started to invent all of this stuff?. It would create a big problem for the historians. So it seems to me that it is easier to think that there was a historical Jesus whose figure (after his death) was gradually acquiring fame by his followers, because they were inventing facts about him so as to prove that his terrible death was predicted in the OT. Then he acquired a divine status, for instance, a birth of a virgin, in order to satisfy the divine standards of christians of pagan origins, who wanted to admire a hero like their ancient gods, who born from a virgin, and so on.