Posts by opusdei1972

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

For anyone who is interested in understanding how scholars can translate John 1:1c, you must ask them the following. Change the word "logos" by other one, like "Zeus". So, ask them, without talking about of John 1:1, how would they translate the following sentence:

THEOS HN hO ZEUS

All of them will agree that it means "Zeus was a god". But they can admit that it may mean "Zeus was God" if the writer believed that Zeus was the only true God. Both are correct translations, but the context defines the definiteness of indefiniteness of the anarthrous. The problem is if you show them the noun "logos" instead of "Zeus", because it has theological consequences.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

Harner has gone beyond Colwell's research and has discovered that anarthrous predicate nouns preceding the verb function primarily to express the nature or character of the subject.

Yes, I have read the article, and I can say that the position does not exclude the indefiniteness or the definiteness of an anarthrous. Again, I have to say that only the writer knew if he meant by "kai theos hn ho logos": "The Word was God" or "the Word was a god".

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

Also, in the first century there was no such a rule as that of Colwell.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

There is no statement in our grammar that was ever meant to imply that "a god" was a permissible translation in John 1:1.

The above statement is plenty dishonest for a scholar. I did my own research in finding the same greek structures and it is clear that, depending on the context, you can interpret the anarthous as indefinite. Of course, I am not saying as the Watchtower that we must translate it as "a god", but it is not grammatically incorrect.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

SonoftheTrinity

If you want to improve your debate with that guy, you can show the old latin translation of John 1:1: "in principio erat verbum, et verbum erat apud deum, et deus erat verbum"

note that in latin we also have "deus" (god) in the accusative case as "deum" (god). However, no article appears because old latin had no article, neither definite, nor indefinite.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

I can defend the translation "The Word was God" in the same way as I can defend that of the NWT. This was a great debate in the early church. This is why educated Christians like Tertullian needed to use philosophical terms to avoid Sabelianism in regarding "theos" as definite. He used the latin word "substantia" (being of essence) to do an exegesis to explain how the Son and the Father are the same God.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

of course, theos and theon mean the same thing: "god", however, they have different functions in a sentence, like he and him, as you pointed out.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

Who translates it "a god" besides the WT and Johannes Greber?

No modern translation does it. However, it is not grammatically incorrect. I am not defending this translation as the true one, because no one currently knows the mind of the writer. However, as Origen noticed, many greek readers were confused, because some thought that there were two Gods or only one God in John 1:1.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

It was all in his effort to convince me that the New World Translation is superior.

Honestly, in some verses the NWT is superior, but in others it is dishonest. The English of the Old Testament of the NWT sometimes is horrible. However, there no such a thing as a superior translation. All are biased.

19

Theos and theon

by SonoftheTrinity in

oh how dubs will cling to da troof.

this guy was trying to get me to agree that theos and theon were different words for god.

i tried explaining that other languages have grammatical cases and the difference between calling god theos and theon was like the difference between referring to god as he(the subjective case) and him(the objective case.

opusdei1972

I had to learn some basic Koiné Greek through online courses and books so as to understand controversial verses in the Bible. Therefore, the New World translation is not grammatically incorrect in translating John 1:1 c as "The Word was a god", because the translation depends on how you interpret the anarthrous "theos". It can be definite or indefinite. Both translations "The Word was a god" and "the Word was God" lead to theological problems. This is why its interpretation led to terrible debates from the second to the fifth century.