Posts by opusdei1972

10

"Raymond Franz: You did not go to heaven"

by opusdei1972 in

that was the title that i found in a blog.

this blog belongs to a witness apologist.

indeed, i was shocked on account of the arrogancy.

opusdei1972

Magnum : This witness apologist even ignores that the Watchtower has been treating for many decades to hide the fact that the great crowd is seen in heaven.

In the beginning, the Watchtower said that the great crowd was seen in courtyard of the gentiles of the temple. But this statement is clearly dishonest, because the sanctuary (NAOS), where the great crowd is seen in Rev 7:15, can't represent a courtyard, because the sanctuary was the inner place of the temple only for priests. This fact already destroys the Watchtower's argument that ony the 144000 are priests. So, in 2002 year, the Watchtower had to invent a "new light", admitting that the great crowd can't be in the courtyard:

In times past, it has been said that the great crowd is in a spiritual equivalent, or an antitype, of the Court of the Gentiles that existed in Jesus’ day. However, further research has revealed at least five reasons why that is not so. (w02 5/1, "Question for readers")

So, the Watchtower, in the same article had to place the John's vision of the temple, not related to the Herod's temple, but in the Solomon temple. However, for the Solomon's temple, the Septuagint used the greek word NAOS for the HEKAL (read 2 Chr 3:17), which was the inner place of the temple only for jews. Were not the 144000 the only spiritual christian jews according to the Watchtower teaching?. Furthermore, in Psalm 11:4 the Septuagint reads "The Lord is in his holy NAOS, in heaven is his throne". So, it is clear that the NAOS of God in Rev 7:15 is in heaven, so the Watchtower's argument does not work.

10

"Raymond Franz: You did not go to heaven"

by opusdei1972 in

that was the title that i found in a blog.

this blog belongs to a witness apologist.

indeed, i was shocked on account of the arrogancy.

opusdei1972

That was the title that I found in a blog. This blog belongs to a Witness Apologist. Indeed, I was shocked on account of the arrogancy. So, I started the discussion by asking him: "Have you been in Heaven, so you did not see him?". Then the apologist argued that Ray lost his position in the 144000 group on account of his apostasy. So I asked him: "where do you find in the NT that only 144000 go to heaven?". He answered that in the Bible it is clear that the great crowd and the 144000 have different destinies. Accordingly, I showed the following verse for the great crowd:

That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. (Rev 7:15, NWT)

Note that the NWT translated the greek word NAOS by temple, however, note how the NWT translated the same greek word in the following verse:

"And the temple sanctuary of God in heaven was opened....." (Rev 11:19, NWT)

So, the NWT committee knew that the greek word NAOS does not mean merely "temple", but, in the context of the Jerusalem temple, it was the sanctuary, where only priests can enter. Also, in this context, the NAOS of God is his heavenly habitation. For this fact, when we read in Revelation 7:15 that the great crowd is the NAOS of God, we clearly understand that they are in heaven. However, the Watchtower Society teaches that the great crowd is seen on earth in Revelation 7:15. This is of course a lie, and this is why the NWT did not want to translate NAOS by sanctuary in Revelation 7:15.

So what was the answer of this Witness Apologist before this clear proof?. He said: "you are a quack, because even the teachers of Greek do not understand well Koiné Greek, so your argument does not prove that the great crowd is a heavenly class. If you want to go to heaven, you will be disappointed. "

The fact is that I did not say that I want to go to heaven, I only wanted to show to this stupid witness that the book of Revelation does not teach what the Watchtower teaches.

14

THE SAD BALLAD OF HAYDEN C. COVINGTON (Attorney of record for the Watchtower Organization)

by Terry in

ali did not serve even five minutes of time in prison and that had zero to do with hayden c. covington..

june 19, 1967 in houston, tex..

there are a number of salient facts concerning this man who possessed a big reputation..

opusdei1972

I would like to read your book Terry, ..sadly, I can't buy it in South America, but if I could get a digital version, it would be great.

7

The Governing Body and "Josephs generation"

by The freewheeling in

hi, i m new here and not so good in english, but ive give it a try and hope you understand.. .

the whole idea of the overlapped generation is not only illogical, there are also serious errors in reasoning and how to interpret the scripture.. .

the only "scriptural argument" that the governing body has managed to bring in this matter is exodus 1: 6 where they say that a "generation" can be stretched to cover a longer period than usually meant by a "generation".

opusdei1972

Jesus said "this generation". It clearly means, his first century contemporaries. For instance, let's read the following verse:

"You unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you?....(Matthew 17:17)

Here we also clearly understand what Jesus meant by "generation", but Witnesses want to read

"You unbelieving and perverse overlapped Fred Franz generation , how long shall I stay with you?"

74

That's it! The Jesus stories are most reasonably explained as myth. History makes this obvious.

by Island Man in

a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.

opusdei1972

OverlappingGeneralizations 29 minutes ago

In the back of my mind, I always wondered:

I have worked with several schizophrenics, and some believe they are the son of god, or are being talked to by god directly. What if Jesus was just a convincing schizophrenic?

Of course, if he said things like "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me", he was a schizophrenic. But most probably be he did not say such a thing, and those words were written by people who did not know him.

74

That's it! The Jesus stories are most reasonably explained as myth. History makes this obvious.

by Island Man in

a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.

opusdei1972

Indeed, many of the stories of Jesus in the Gospels are myths. For instance, his birth of a virgin, the resurrection of Lazarus, his walking on the waters, and many of the dialogues (in the Fourth Gospel) are not historical. However, Jesus had to exist, as Caleb pointed out. But he was a Jew, a leader of a sect, so I strongly doubt (as many scholars do) that he sent his disciples to preach and baptise people of all nations in the name of the Father and the Son, and the holy spirit.

In conclusion, I believe that only a ten percent of what we read in the Gospels is historical.

18

Anyone miss "Scholar" who used to post here? Found him!

by sir82 in

jw
friends

...in the jwtalk thread covering the september broadcast re: "generation".. http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/22665-september-broadcast/page-5.

poor neil, he comes on this forum, he gets hammered.. goes on the virulently pro-jw forum, gets hammered.. you'd almost think he was a troll.....no, couldn't be..... .

opusdei1972

I was rather disappointed in the explanation of 'this generation' by David Splane in the September Broadcasting. He really explained nothing but simply added to the confusion over the interpretation of this most problematic phrase. Further, the current explanations seem at odds with what is now published on this subject in the updated online Insight to the Scriptures.

A much more prudent interpretation of matters is simply to return to what was published in the Watchtower in 1927? that 'this generation' represented the Church or the Anointed as a whole which is well supported if one consults the meaning of the Hebrew/Aramaic form of which Jesus spoke in his Olivet discourse.

scholar JW

The problem with this guy (Scholar JW) is that he is trying to THINK, not understanding that the theological Watchtower's rubbish is for ACCEPTING it, without using the brain.

18

Anyone miss "Scholar" who used to post here? Found him!

by sir82 in

jw
friends

...in the jwtalk thread covering the september broadcast re: "generation".. http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/22665-september-broadcast/page-5.

poor neil, he comes on this forum, he gets hammered.. goes on the virulently pro-jw forum, gets hammered.. you'd almost think he was a troll.....no, couldn't be..... .

opusdei1972

Only brainwashed persons can "appreciate" the absurdity of the "overlapping generation" stuff.

This is one of the most stupid exegesis of the theological rubbish of the Watchtower's fantasy.

http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/22665-september-broadcast/page-5

63

EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian

by Perry in

a lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.

is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?

what exactly makes someone a christian?

opusdei1972

As early as the first century, Christians call themselves "apostates" or "liars", etc.

14

Why doesn't Jesus appear to you ?

by opusdei1972 in

the new testament tells us stories about miracles, people speaking in different languages by the holy spirit, jesus appearing to many of his disciples.

but, why this was only a first century phenomenom???.

here some reasoning: http://godisimaginary.com/i15.htm.

opusdei1972

The New Testament tells us stories about miracles, people speaking in different languages by the holy spirit, Jesus appearing to many of his disciples. But, why this was only a first century phenomenom???.

Here some reasoning: http://godisimaginary.com/i15.htm