I love to read the Watchtower's article "The Church Fathers—Advocates of Bible Truth?" (w01 4/15 pp. 17-21). There we may read the most contadictory statements of the Watchtower Society, which shows how deceptive and ignorant is the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.
"For slightly more than 100 years after Nicaea, theologians, most of them writing in Greek, worked out in a long and bitter debate what was to be the distinguishing doctrine of Christendom, the Trinity. Chief among them were Athanasius, the assertive bishop of Alexandria..."
Yes, but you needed Athanasius to defend the Pauline authorship of the Letter to the Hebrews:
Writership of the letter to the Hebrews has been widely ascribed to the apostle Paul. It was accepted as an epistle of Paul by early writers. ... Hebrews is listed among “fourteen letters of Paul the apostle” in “The Canon of Athanasius,” of the fourth century C.E. (it-1 pp. 1077-1080)
Or consider the teaching of the immortality of the soul, a belief that some part of man lives on after the body dies. Again, the Church Fathers were instrumental in introducing this notion to a religion that had no teaching about a soul surviving death. The Bible clearly shows that the soul can die: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) What was the basis for the Church Fathers’ belief in an immortal soul? “The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen in the East and St. Augustine in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . [Augustine’s doctrine] . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism,” says the New Catholic Encyclopedia. And the magazine Presbyterian Life says: “Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”
really?....the church fathers just took "the belief that some part of man lives on after the body dies" from Jesus teachings. For example, Irenaeus, a second century bishop of Lyon wrote the following:
The Lord has taught with very great fullness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted, and that they remember the deeds which they did in this state of existence, and from which they have now ceased—in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham. In this account He states (Luke 16:19, etc.) that Dives knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him— [Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table. [He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive the preaching of Him who was to rise again from the dead. By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class [of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment. (Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 34))
After even this brief examination of the historical backdrop of the Church Fathers, as well as the origins of their teachings, it is appropriate to ask, Should a sincere Christian base his or her beliefs on the teachings of the Church Fathers? Let the Bible answer.
For one thing, Jesus Christ himself ruled out the use of the religious title “Father” when he said: “Do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.” (Matthew 23:9) The use of the term “Father” to designate any religious figure is unchristian and unscriptural
Really?...so the Apostle Paul was an apostate because he said "For though you may have 10,000 guardians in Christ, you certainly do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, I have become your father through the good news." (1 Cor 4:15)
The written Word of God was completed about 98 C.E. with the writings of the apostle John. Thus, true Christians do not need to look to any human as the source of inspired revelation. They are careful not to ‘make the word of God invalid’ because of human tradition. Letting human tradition take the place of God’s Word is spiritually lethal. Jesus warned: “If . . . a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”—Matthew 15:6, 14.
Does a Christian need any revelation besides the word of God as contained in the Bible? No. The book of Revelation cautions against adding anything to the inspired record: “If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll.”—Revelation 22:18.
How do they know that the last writings belonged to the apostle John?. The early source the Watchtower has is what Irenaeus (a Church Father) wrote about the authorship of them, that is 80 years after those supposedly writings of John. On the other hand, about the inspired books, why the first book of Enoch was not included in the canon?....we know that Jude quoted it. If Jude quoted the book of Enoch, the Bible used by the Watchtower is incomplete. Furthermore, we don't know how the original of the book of Revelation was. For instance, we have two versions of Rev. 13:18, some manuscripts say 616 and other ones 666. Even Irenaeus reported such discrepancy in the second century. Professor David Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Paleography at the University of Birmingham, thinks that 616, although less memorable than 666, is the original. However, the New World Translation ignores it.
On the other hand, in the 2013 revision of the NWT, the NWT contains the Gospel of Mark until the verse 8 of chapter 16. How do they know that the original ended in that verse?. How do they know that John 1:18 says "the only-begotten god" and not "the only-begotten son"?.
Moreover, the true Christian congregation is “a pillar and support of the truth.” (1 Timothy 3:15) Its overseers safeguard the purity of their teaching within the congregation, preventing any doctrinal pollutant from creeping in. (2 Timothy 2:15-18, 25) They keep out of the congregation ‘false prophets, false teachers, and destructive sects.’ (2 Peter 2:1) After the death of the apostles, the Church Fathers allowed “misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons” to take root in the Christian congregation.—1 Timothy 4:1.
The consequences of this apostasy are evident in Christendom today. Its beliefs and practices are a far cry from Bible truth.
Really?...what do you think the Apostle Paul would say after reading the following Rutherford's new light?
“Instead of the ‘servant’s’ being moved into action by the operation of the holy spirit as a helper, the Scriptures seem clearly to teach that the Lord directs his angels what to do and that they act under the supervision of the Lord in directing the remnant on earth concerning the course of action to take. -Rev. 8:1-7″ (Salvation, 1939, p. 263)
So, angels (demons), replaced the "Holy Spirit" in the Watchtower teachings during Rutherford's age.
opusdei1972
JoinedPosts by opusdei1972
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The Watchtower and its absurd accusations against the Church Fathers
by opusdei1972 ini love to read the watchtower's article "the church fathersadvocates of bible truth?
" (w01 4/15 pp.
there we may read the most contadictory statements of the watchtower society, which shows how deceptive and ignorant is the jehovah's witnesses religion.. .
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opusdei1972
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Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"
by opusdei1972 inin numbers 31 we read the following:.
jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.
afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.
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opusdei1972
millie210 Some years ago I was a witness, who believed that the Bible was 98 % inerrant. After leaving the Society I still believed that the entire Bible was the word of God. But I have to admit that I did not want to analyze the Bible through critical eyes. So, when I found a contradiction, I used to read websites of christian apologists, in which the contradictions are harmonized by sophistic arguments. That was the way I was deceiving myself. Now I see that the Old Testament can't be the word of God, because a loving God could not be partial. I realize that the Old Testament was written by Jews who had a nationalistic agenda. So, those stories where YHWH is shown as the God of Israel, the Lord of Hosts who endorses genocide against Israel's enemies, were based on ancient wars, but reconfigured by the Jewish scribes so as to raise the pride of an inferior nation compared with Babylon, Egypt, Persia, etc. Accordingly, YHWH of the Hosts is a Jewish invention.
If God is the God of the Old Testament, why doesn't he use his supernatural power to save inocent people who die in many natural disasters? ...The fact is that that God who protected the Israelites in the story of the Exodus does not exist. The true God (as I see) never chose a nation and favored a religious system.
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Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"
by opusdei1972 inin numbers 31 we read the following:.
jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.
afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.
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opusdei1972
I wonder how could Jesus say that his Father and God was the God of the Old Testament. This fact lowers his credibility.
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Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"
by opusdei1972 inin numbers 31 we read the following:.
jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.
afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.
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opusdei1972
THIS IS WHY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE AS THEY ARE, BECAUSE THEY LOVE THEIR GOD, WHO IS THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”(Richard Dawkins)
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Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"
by opusdei1972 inin numbers 31 we read the following:.
jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.
afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.
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opusdei1972
....How did they know who were not virgin women?...it seems that they did an inspection.
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Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"
by opusdei1972 inin numbers 31 we read the following:.
jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.
afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.
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opusdei1972
In Numbers 31 we read the following:
Jehovah then told Moses: 2 “Take vengeance for the Israelites on the Mid′i·an·ites. Afterward you will be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses spoke to the people, saying: “Equip men from among you for battle against Mid′i·an and to execute Jehovah’s vengeance on Mid′i·an. 4 You should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of Israel into the army.”........... 7 They waged war against Mid′i·an, just as Jehovah had commanded Moses, and they killed every male. 8 Along with the others slain, they killed the kings of Mid′i·an, namely, E′vi, Re′kem, Zur, Hur, and Re′ba, the five kings of Mid′i·an. They also killed Ba′laam+ the son of Be′or with the sword. 9 But the Israelites carried off captive the women and children of Mid′i·an. They also plundered all their domestic animals, all their livestock, and all their possessions. 10 And all their cities in which they had settled and all their encampments they burned with fire. 11 And they took all the spoil and all the plunder, both humans and animals. 12 Then they brought the captives, the plunder, and the spoil to Moses and El·e·a′zar the priest and to the assembly of the Israelites, to the camp in the desert plains of Mo′ab near the Jordan at Jer′i·cho. 13 Then Moses and El·e·a′zar the priest and all the chieftains of the assembly went out to meet them outside the camp. 14 But Moses grew indignant at the appointed men of the combat forces, the chiefs of the thousands and the chiefs of the hundreds who were coming in from the military expedition. 15 Moses said to them: “Have you preserved all the females alive? 16 Look! They are the ones who by Ba′laam’s word induced the Israelites to commit unfaithfulness toward Jehovah over the affair of Pe′or, so that the scourge came upon the assembly of Jehovah. 17 Now you should kill every male among the children and kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man. 18 But you may keep alive all the young girls who have not had sexual relations with a man [for having sex with them?]
What a lovely God was YHWH!!!
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Gerrit Losch talks to poor South Americans about Materialism while wearing THREE (3) gold rings and 2 gold cuff links...
by Calebs Airplane inhe also talks trash about higher education .... (for those who know some spanish, view this youtube video...).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suxhx1ho_nq.
what an idiot.. .
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opusdei1972
Gerrit Losch has told again his stupid past analogy, namely, in the same way that you would not recomend a shot in your head we must not recomend university studies. But now he added that surviving university studies is like surviving after swimming a sea with sharks.
This GB member is one of the most hypocrites, because he and his stupid friends use lawers graduated in universities to defend their asses.
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Where was the dead body of Jesus? Did the disciples disappear it?
by opusdei1972 ini am currently an skeptic, but i have to admit that i can't assure that all the stuff of early christianity was false.. for instance, we know that the genuine letters of paul were written before the destruction of jerusalem.
so, paul affirmed that jesus resurrected, though he was not there when it supposedly happened.
but, if jesus did not resurrect, why didn't the jews expose this falsehood?.
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opusdei1972
Vanderhoven7 I see that Bishop John Shelby Spong holds a more rational view of the Gospels. Spong sincerely admits that Mark was the source of Matthew and Luke. But Craig wants to hide the sun with a finger.
http://seektheos.com/was-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ-a-real-physical-event/
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Gerrit Losch talks to poor South Americans about Materialism while wearing THREE (3) gold rings and 2 gold cuff links...
by Calebs Airplane inhe also talks trash about higher education .... (for those who know some spanish, view this youtube video...).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suxhx1ho_nq.
what an idiot.. .
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opusdei1972
Gerrit Losch is an idiot.
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Where was the dead body of Jesus? Did the disciples disappear it?
by opusdei1972 ini am currently an skeptic, but i have to admit that i can't assure that all the stuff of early christianity was false.. for instance, we know that the genuine letters of paul were written before the destruction of jerusalem.
so, paul affirmed that jesus resurrected, though he was not there when it supposedly happened.
but, if jesus did not resurrect, why didn't the jews expose this falsehood?.
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opusdei1972
I admit that much of what was written in the Gospels is not historical, but I agree with Bart and other scholars who believe that Jesus was a Jew who was killed by the romans. I agree that it is possible that "the story of the body disappearing was added much later and probably was not an actual event". So, as I see, Paul existed, and he preached before 70 AD based on a historical person (Jesus) who did not meet him. Of course, Paul is before the Gospels and it seems that he preached the spiritual resurrection of Christ (as shown in 1 Cor 15). If so, the stuff about the dead body was not an issue until some christians wanted to prove that he was raised in flesh (it seems it was the Johannine community close to the year 100 AD). So, after the destruction of the year 70 AD, no one could find the body of Jesus to prove something.