Posts by Mephis

12

Magazine money

by pepperheart in

from next year the borg will only be publishing the two magazines saving about $2 million dollars a month.

what do you think they will be spending the money on

I kind of want it to be a secret base in a hollowed out volcano. Wine, women and song. That would mean there's some hope there's something human going on inside the heads of the GB. But it just seems the money will go towards trying to maintain what they've decided they can still afford to do. Any expansion now seems likely to be in developing their tv channel. If the issue is one where what's going out has been much greater than what they've been taking in, any savings are already going to be swallowed up in what doesn't get cut.

12

Jehovah's Witnesses Elders try to talk to the Governing Body about Ray Franz

by Brokeback Watchtower in

the governing body in denial:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwigzn6oomc.

Mephis

Listened to this in full for the first time this morning. Some of the things I grew up around are directly related to it. Sad. And how many of us have been down similar paths, especially before the internet?

The part about the apostate hunts, yeah, remember those even as a wee nipper. The congregation I grew up in had a similar attitude to what they describe in Ireland, where asking a question and using one's own conscience over-rode what was written in the WT. And it wasn't apostasy. It was your own conscience and everyone was entitled to find the right line for themselves, within the obvious 'thou shalts' specifically said in the bible. Very different religion to that which seems to have been happening in Brooklyn even back then.

40

WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?

by DarioKehl in

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.

hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.

massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..

Mephis

There's no change in policy DarioKehl. It's just restating what is current policy. It seems curious more in its timing and how it specifies to check personal files held by elders. I believe one of the cases in Australia did have some personal files still in existence, and it showed the elders to have lied about what they knew and when. Not that destroying them makes things any better either, but then successful prosecution of criminals and the protection of the community from them isn't something the WBTS ever seems concerned about.

There have been a couple of cases in Britain too, recently, where the destruction of notes and potential evidence has been commented upon by the prosecution. Not to mention cases where they've been obstructive and generally unhelpful. But nothing new here. A restatement of fact and what already happens, and has done for years as far as I know here in Britain. In terms of current investigations, production orders have already been made by the Charity Commission. Whether this is doublechecking that everything incriminating has been torched before the British public inquiry... reasonable question I think.

40

WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?

by DarioKehl in

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.

hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.

massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..

Mephis

20 October 1998, to BoE from London Bethel (IBSA House, Ridgeway)

The congregation service committee should immediately review together the congregation's confidential file. On a piece of paper make a list entitled "List of Judicial Matters." For each judicial report in the file record the name of the individual (even if he has moved from your congregation), the date of the action or reproof, and the names of the members of the judicial committee that handled the matter, indicating who served as chairman and, if reinstated, the date of reinstatement. No other information should appear on this sheet. This procedure should be followed for those who were disfellowshipped, who disassociated themselves, or who were judicially reproved. Likewise, unbaptized publishers who have been dealt with in harmony with "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" pages 98, 99, can also be recorded on this list in the same way. For the time being, destroy all these files over five years old, with the exception of any that deal with known child molestation. To ensure confidentiality, the service committee will destroy by shredding or burning all envelopes, only retaining the S-79 card for the congregation's permanent file. Thereafter, the congregation secretary will keep the "List of Judicial Matters" up-to-date.

1 January 2001, to BoE from London Bethel

Between March and August 2000 circuit overseers discussed with bodies of elders how to bring personal and congregation files in line with the Data Protection Act. By now you should have followed all the instructions contained in the "Checklist for Complying With the Data Protection Act". This involved the destruction of most judicial records, minutes and agendas of elders' meetings that contained personal information, letters of introduction, correspondence relating to individuals, and so forth. As a further implementation of new procedures under data protection legislation, we are now giving attention to two areas; files involving child molestation. and the Record of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation (S-79b) cards.

40

WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?

by DarioKehl in

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.

hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.

massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..

Mephis

It's annual, at least that's what I thought? Recall my father's bonfires in the garden when he took stuff out of his office. One of the things the Aussie Royal Commission, and the press coverage picked up on, was the JW routine of destroying notes and anything which could have been useful to later investigations.

52

1914—The Turning Point in History - Really?

by berrygerry in

1914the turning point in history.

30 from the human standpoint, the world troubles and global wars foretold in the bible were far from the thinking of the pre-1914 world.

german statesman konrad adenauer said: thoughts and pictures come to my mind, .

Mephis

Vidiot12 hours agWhy?

Why?

Have they been overly kind to you?
Mainly because I'd imagine not a single one of them has done even a post-16 educational course in either history or literature, where they'd get slapped down for confirmation bias, selective quotation and inability to use sources properly. Instead they're in a bizarre echo chamber which reinforces their inability to perform basic reasoning. An unkinder view is to question whether anyone can be stupid enough to read Russell proclaiming that these were the Time of the End and then portray it solely as a Anglo-American upper class idyll shattered by the war.
To quote the 15 July WT, 1894:
"Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble."

---
@ NewYork44M - well, yeah, they named several dates. But they got lucky with something very major happening in 1914. They airbrush over that they were saying October 1914 Armageddon arrives, and make it sound like they were predicting the World War. But whatever. They got the year right for something happening somewhere which would be seen as pivotal to world history. By luck. And in advance and with a lot of attempts around it they like to forget. But if nothing had happened in 1914, it would have joined the rest of the dates they don't like to mention 100 years afterwards.

52

1914—The Turning Point in History - Really?

by berrygerry in

1914the turning point in history.

30 from the human standpoint, the world troubles and global wars foretold in the bible were far from the thinking of the pre-1914 world.

german statesman konrad adenauer said: thoughts and pictures come to my mind, .

Mephis

The Napoleon fulfillment of prophesy was the fall of the Papal State. October, 1799. The Time of the End began then according to Russell. Armageddon scheduled for 1914 as a result.

52

1914—The Turning Point in History - Really?

by berrygerry in

1914the turning point in history.

30 from the human standpoint, the world troubles and global wars foretold in the bible were far from the thinking of the pre-1914 world.

german statesman konrad adenauer said: thoughts and pictures come to my mind, .

Mephis

They got lucky with 1914. Even so, they were predicting their big send-off for October. Not August.

If you want an insight to the fears current in England, there was a whole stream of invasion literature written from the 1870s onwards. England gets invaded by the Germans, mainly, with the odd French invasion when there was a bit of friction before the old Entente Cordiale. The most famous example, however, involved Martians on the loose in London... But all part of a very long period of fears and tensions leading up to the war as the problems between the so-called Great Powers increased and the arms race escalated.

Trying to be kind to the WBTS writers, they can't even quote their own literature correctly from the time period so I have no doubt whatsoever they haven't a clue about this.

20

Are the horrendous killings in Paris part of a religious practice?

by clarity in

islam is a religion of war, not a religion of peace .

seems there are many religions who do not tolerate other groups.

this statement "islam is a religion of war, not a religion of peace" reminded me of what was said at a watchtower convention in 2013 ....using a chilling example of how they condone dis fellowshipping & the soul killing practice of shunning!

Mephis

It goes beyond religion. But religion can help numb the humanity which might otherwise be present. That outsourced conscience which turns murder into martyrdom isn't just Islam. It isn't just religion. But we'd surely be better off without people wanting to recreate the pre-Enlightenment world of theocracies and thought crime and massacre.

"F*** the faithful, f*** the committed, the dedicated, the true believers; f*** all the sure and certain people prepared to maim and kill whoever got in their way; f*** every cause that ended in murder and children screaming."

- Iain Banks

18

2 John 10

by What Now? in

just looking for some rebuttals to 2 john 10, specifically when it comes to shunning family.

we essentially admitted to our families that we do not want to raise our kids as witnesses and do not believe what jehovah's witnesses teach.

predictably, they use 2 john 10 to justify shunning us, specifically the portion of the verse where it says "if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him".. since we are apostates (according to the jw definition), and no longer "bring this teaching", would our family be correct in interpreting this verse to mean that they should shun us?.

Mephis

There is some evidence that some early Christians had a form of shunning. The Didache is typically dated to c.150 AD. It could be a few decades earlier, or a few decades later. A couple of centuries on, most Christian writers seemed to view it alongside other works we'd now call apocrypha. But for what it's worth:

14:2 However, let no one who is at odds with his brother come together with you, until he has reconciled, so that your sacrifice may not be profaned.

15:3 And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as you have it in the gospel. But to anyone who acts amiss against another, let no one speak to him, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as you have it in the gospel of our Lord.

One thing to take away from that is that this community did it when personal relationships within the community itself were ruptured by unChristian behaviour. There's nothing about doctrine or 'sin' more generally to it. Most different interpretation between the early Christians who used The Didache and JWs supposedly imitating early Christianity.