Posts by Mephis

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Mephis

And this is just proves how clueless, and tacitly culpable, the governing body have been with this issue down the years - and to have the brazen cheek to go on their tv show and call it 'apostate lies'. They have no shame.

"F67 The practices and procedures of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation for the prevention of
child sexual abuse, and in particular for the management of the risk of an abuser reoffending,
do not take account of the actual risk of an offender reoffending and accordingly place
children in the organisation at significant risk of sexual abuse."

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Mephis

Will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (Angus Stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them. In short, absolutely damning.

Not been through every submission myself yet. Available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx

Available findings on the authority of the Governing Body

F39 Mr Spinks’ evidence that the Australia Branch has full authority to produce documents,
seminars, letters to elders and letters to publishers without the approval or agreement of the
Governing Body is rejected.
F40 The Governing Body retains authority in respect of all publications in the name of the
Jehovah’s Witness organisation and any view or perspective contrary to that of the
Governing Body is not tolerated.

Available findings on the investigation process

F41 There are no circumstances in which the survivor of a sexual assault should have to make her
allegation in the presence of the person whom she accuses of having assaulted her, and,
contrary to the present position, the documents, manuals and instructions produced by the
Jehovah’s Witness organisation should make this clear.
F42 The requirement that two or more eyewitnesses to the same incident are required in the
absence of a confession from the accused, the testimony of two or three witnessesto separate
incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, or strong circumstantial evidence testified to by at
least two witnesses (i.e. the two witness rule):
a) means that in respect of child sexual abuse which almost invariably occurs in private, very
often no finding of guilt will be made in respect of a guilty accused
b) causes victims of child sexual abuse to feel unheard and unsupported when it results in
allegations of child sexual abuse not being upheld
c) is a danger to children in the Jehovah’s Witness organisation because its consequence is
that very often nothing is done about an abuser in the organisation
d) does not seem to be applied by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation in the case of an
accusation of adultery, which suggests that adultery is taken more seriously by the
organisation than child sexual abuse, and
e) needs to be revisited by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation with a view to abandoning it
or at least reformulating it to ensure that safe decisions as to someone being guilty of
child sexual abuse can be made more easily.
F43 The requirement that only elders (i.e. men) can participate in the making of decisions in the
investigation process on whether or not someone has committed child sexual abuse:
a) is a fundamental flaw in that process which weakens the decisions by excluding women,
and
b) needs to be revisited by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to ensure a meaningful role
for women.

31

2015-11-18-BOE--Credits to jwfacts!

by Atlantis in

thanks to mr. jwfacts we now have a copy of this letter.

i would have posted it on his thread but there was already 2 pages of replies and i didn't think the link would be seen.. thank you again mr. facts!.

.. click the green download button.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/bbduxaa.

Mephis

Part of the evidence uncovered by the ARC was a curious letter explaining how JWs massage their account figures to try and avoid certain legislation (I believe JWFacts ran into that with his attempts to get them to share his personal records). That may explain the accountants.

Legal staff, well, would seem to speak for itself. They do seem to prefer to have their inhouse teams deal with court cases - would suspect not least because a good dub will give the authorised answer provided to them rather than checking to ensure the answer actually meets the question being asked.

27

The Exodus confirmed..

by Crazyguy in

for those of you that don't research this stuff i will give a little back story.

we all know about the moses exodus, but history and archeology didn't seem to confirm this event.

the only exodus out of egypt ever recorded was that of a group of asiatic tribes that had taken over egypt for a bit over 100 years called the hyksos and the followers of the pharaoh akhenaten who perpetuated a monotheistic idea of worshiping only one deity the aten.

Mephis

Just with the Moses name thing, the idea is that Moses is a shortened Egyptian name, "son of...", and could include *any* Egyptian god in it. So Tutmoses, Ramoses, Ptahmoses etc. But it isn't certain Moshe does come from the Egyptian. There is a Hebrew root which could also explain it very reasonably.

I'd generally just caution against trying to pin too much 'history' to a narrative which really isn't about history. To take a neutral example, one can find historical fact in Homer's Iliad, but one wouldn't then want to use it as a full and accurate guide to Mycenae Greece and look for the 'historical' Helen. It's been done in the past, and it's failed! The setting is not as important as the story being told.

Exodus is very fuzzy on the whole history thing, and the aim of it isn't so much to give a historical record but to provide a religious narrative. There may be points where it matches history, or a distorted oral tradition of it, but trying to hammer on historical events is always going to be problematic. There were links between Canaan and Egypt for half a millenia and more before the supposed time period of Joseph and Moses and we know but the barest fraction about what was going on. There may be many events which could have seeded the idea of people coming and going from Egypt. Choosing the Hyksos is quite literally choosing just one we know about and hanging things from that. Fun exercise but ultimately futile without knowing which sources were feeding those writing by the rivers of Babylon and later.

49

Elder's letter requesting details of solicitors, barristers and accountants

by jwfacts in

there was a letter sent to elders in australia on 18th november 2015 asking for details of publishers that are solicitors, barristers and accountants.

what would be their motive for these details?

the rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher.

Mephis

Will you ignore the stigma we attached to you for being 'too worldly' as you obtained professional qualifications?

Will you take every word coming from Brooklyn and the Branch Committee as ex cathedra, even if it should trigger every professional warning in your body and may lead to judges asking why you misled them in presenting evidence?

Yes? Trade in your good career for one where you work for us for free.

Yours,

The Clowns answering a lot of awkward questions about finances and legal matters at an ARC.

29

Is ANYONE in charge a real ordained minister? College degrees? Seminary? A real Theological degree?

by WireRider in

and i don't mean that stupid made up shit russell just invented only a 100 yrs ago.

he never passed the 7th grade and declared that the world was too stupid to understand the bible without him.. who do you follow and pore money into the watchtower?.

Mephis

An ex of mine did her theology degree after her BA in another subject as she decided to become an Anglican vicar. Learned a lot by osmosis and lazy pillow talk about religion as she did it. Curiously enough, the only part of the bible she genuinely believed in was the historicity of Jesus. Everything else was open to debate, discussion and critique. According to surveys of the Church of England, 1 in 50 CofE vicars in Britain don't believe in God as anything but a human construct. Broad church...

Not sure of the academic standards involved with some institutions but perfectly possible to fail a degree course of any sort here in Britain, although if your work wasn't even of Pass standard then it would be unlikely you'd ride it out for 3 years. But certificates of attendance do exist, so it's not unknown.

27

The Exodus confirmed..

by Crazyguy in

for those of you that don't research this stuff i will give a little back story.

we all know about the moses exodus, but history and archeology didn't seem to confirm this event.

the only exodus out of egypt ever recorded was that of a group of asiatic tribes that had taken over egypt for a bit over 100 years called the hyksos and the followers of the pharaoh akhenaten who perpetuated a monotheistic idea of worshiping only one deity the aten.

Mephis

We know the Hyksos worshipped Ba'al Zephon (who they conflated with Seth) from the big temple to Seth at Avaris and various finds relating to this form of Seth being 'Lord of Avaris'. The temple to Seth was actually maintained by the Egyptians even after they'd taken Avaris from the Hyksos.

If Avaris is meant by the Exodus writer, then you'd kind of wonder why he forgot to mention that it was a major centre for trade in Egypt. That was it's defining feature - it's position on the Nile allowing for Mediterranean sea trade (lots of Minoan influences in buildings there, pottery from Cyprus) and access to the land trade routes into Canaan and beyond. There's some debate still whether old Avaris became the main military harbour for the later city of Ramesses. But regardless, there is the slight problem that Avaris was already a trade hub 200 years before the Hyksos 'invasion'... (settlement dating to Amenemhat II at least, who is recorded as heading into Syria and capturing Aamu (Asiatics - same term used for Hyksos) as slaves).

I can buy the idea of a much later origin myth being built upon vague memories of historical events, even to the extent of the chronology becoming very confused.

9

The Ages Of The Biblical Patriarchs

by JW_Rogue in

so i've been reading the imitate their faith book (because my wife wants to) and keep coming upon these ridiculous ages for the bible patriarchs.

now i know wt takes everything literally but there has got to be some explanation that makes more sense.

why would the bible writers create these obviously false ages?

Mephis

Everything was bigger, better, stronger, taller, healthier etc etc in the mythic past. The Hindus have one where humans lived to be 100,000 so the Biblical patriarchs were slacking.

37

Did I imagine a brief thaw in the Watchtower injunction against going to university?

by slimboyfat in

okay i was talking to an elder and he said me going to university was a bad idea and i should have listened to the society and not gone.

but i said that when i went to university the watchtower was saying it might not be a bad idea to go to, as long as you do it for the "right reasons", don't associate with worldly people, and keep clear of "damaging ideas".

but basically they said it was okay, in this "changing world" and job market to go to university.

Mephis

Barbara Anderson wrote an interesting article about the reasons behind the thaw: http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/education_anderson.htm

Relevant quote:

"One member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Lloyd Barry, now deceased, attended university in his youth in New Zealand. In the early 1990s, he expressed himself privately to some members of the Writing Department at the headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses’ organization in Brooklyn, New York, about a needed change of attitude towards supplementary education, but not because he had attended university. Lloyd Barry was empathetic towards the low-paying job plight of Witnesses as expressed in personal letters received at headquarters, and from Jehovah’s Witnesses branch office communiqués from around the world. He said that in certain European countries jobs were not available to Witnesses, even in fast food restaurants, if they could not produce a resume which showed supplemental education after high school. Due to difficult economic changes in a world that Witnesses could not escape from, Lloyd Barry, along with the rest of the Governing Body, authorized the November 1, 1992 Watchtower article that changed the view of Witnesses towards higher education.

Interestingly, another Governing Body member, Dan Sydlik, shared with a friend that the Watchtower Society was finding itself in a difficult position because this mammoth publishing company needed skilled technical people but couldn't find them in the Witness community. So it was decided to allow a somewhat more liberal attitude towards a college education, knowing that some percentage of students with the necessary technical skills would eventually volunteer to become part of the staff at headquarters"

I used it in the mid-90s to move away to university and then drop the borg. It was still very much frowned upon in comparison to the joys of being a window cleaning pioneer. Still had to justify post-16 education by choosing some courses which fitted the 'serving where the need was greater/I really want to work in Bethel as a translator' figleaf of an excuse one could use.

My apologies to those younger than me who found the door closed because I, like so many others it would seem, used it to get the hell out of dodge. >_>

44

New Generation Understanding

by momzcrazy in

hello everyone, i am new here and newly freed from the snare of wtbs.

my sister, also newly freed, said our mom told her at the annual meeting there was a new "understanding" on the generation confusion.

it is now the annointed that will not pass away.. has anyone else heard this?

Mephis

The more they explain it the more the 'wtf?!' is rattled. Hope they keep thinking it's an issue with not saying it often enough or not explaining it clearly enough. The more they break it down, the more ridiculous it becomes. There's no reference to age in the imaginary second group they've invented guys, so don't put your feet up til 2040. But you bet your bottom dollar they'll be saying it could last til 2040 right up until New Year's Eve 2039.