Mephis

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Posts by Mephis

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  125

  Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

  by the girl next door in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now what is your stance?

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  Mephis

  Here, the dominant ethical norm seems that the Watchtower's copyright is relatively less worthy of protection because they use copyright to do bad things, and the copyright owner's rights are relatively worthy of protection because Ray and Cynthia Franz chose her to carry the copyright forward.

  That's because there is a clear difference... and one recognised in law too. Let's reframe the substance of the OP to show the problem.
  The British PM writes a very, very long letter which calls into question his ability to govern the country. A newspaper gets hold of the letter. Can the British PM expect to be able to exercise his very real and very valid copyright over that letter to prevent publication? If you live in a country where the answer is 'yes', then you should be demanding a change in the law. In Britain, a judge would tell him where to put his complaint about broken copyright. There is no ethical dilemma involved.
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  125

  Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

  by the girl next door in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now what is your stance?

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  Mephis

  Copyright is utilized in any way the copyright holder wishes. However we weigh in on it, if it agrees with us or not, violation of copyright is illegal, even when that copyright is to suppress or protect financial loss.

  Obviously depends on jurisdiction, but there are very valid defences for doing it here in Britain. I'd suggest the WBTS obtaining copyright to suppress inconvenient information contained in CoC would fall under one of those defences.
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  125

  Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

  by the girl next door in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now what is your stance?

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  Mephis

  Eh?

  British courts consistently find that the 'public interest' defence outweighs any right to private property. In the scenario set out in the OP, the WBTS have to demonstrate that someone has harmed them financially to claim damages. If one shares freely and to inform against a cult, then I'm wondering what possible harm/damage they will be claiming to have been done. thegirlnextdoor makes one argument in her post, and if that's the best available, then the WBTS would be arguing in favour of the public interest defence :D
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  125

  Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

  by the girl next door in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now what is your stance?

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  Mephis

  Watchtower would argue that the illegal distribution of their copyrighted work meant only for their BOEs could cause many rank and file members to leave the organization, taking their voluntary contributions to the world wide work with them. That is financial loss. It may be ethical from our standpoint to do so, and it most definitely is to wake people up causing them to abandon the WT organization. But it does not lift the violation of copyright infringement. Call it civil disobedience if you like.

  I'd love to see the WBTS lawyers try to argue that. "You see the harm is that when people realise we're full of nonsense, they stop giving us money." No. They have to show that they have been harmed financially by making CoC available in spite of them holding copyright on it. People really do confuse breaching intellectual property law with criminal law. They two very very different things.

  Now, in conjunction with this, you will see in this forum, on reddit, and on multiple FB walls, that there is a huge number of ExJWs that are still justifying the pirating and distribution of CoC. To us it is unethical and morally corrupt to do so. But justifications for "civil disobedience" are really only in the eye of the beholder aren't they?

  Not really. There's a very clear distinction between holding copyright to suppress and holding copyright to benefit financially from using that copyright.

  Watchtower is just as livid over the breach of copyright for their publications, documents, files, letters etc. as are the large percentage of us that now unequivocally believe the piracy of CoC is horrendous. Which leads me to another question.
  Why now? Why such a pinnacle of outrage with this issue today? Tens of thousands of pirated PDFs of CoC have circulated for many years amongst this community. I find it extremely ironic that a Cedars video and a Mike Kim rebuttal have propelled this issue at present into epic proportions.

  Pass. i was addressing the issue you raised in your OP. I don't find breaking copyright particularly outrageous. I used to technically break it every time I transfered media from one device to another. Even the courts recognise the shambolic nature of current copyright law. Lots of froth with this current noise, lots of silliness, not my monkeys, not my circus.
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  125

  Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

  by the girl next door in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now what is your stance?

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  Mephis

  It's breaching copyright law. But it's a civil offence, and it's for them to show how they've lost financially from anything they distribute free of charge being distributed, erm, free of charge. I'd have more of a problem if people were charging for, or benefiting financially from, something within copyright which was available for free elsewhere. That's just rude. But in the scenario painted by the OP, can you imagine the press coverage of the book the dubs want to suppress from being read? It's nominal damages and no costs awarded to the plaintiff stuff even if you lost the case.
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  125

  Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

  by the girl next door in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now what is your stance?

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  Mephis

  So the copyright law only applies if we agree with the organistion the copyright belongs to? If we don't agree with them or don't like them then all bets are off?
  If we take that principle a bit further and extend itt to other laws, what's acceptable? Murder, for example. Is murder ok if the murdee (new word!) is a bit of a twat? Taking the point to extremes perhaps but it is the logical conclusion.

  If you're confusing protection of intellectual property with physical harm then we're on very, very different pages. Civil versus criminal is the page I'm on. Just how exactly do I harm the interests of the WBTS by copying something they want to suppress? Mull that over a little and figure out which is the greater right - the right to knowledge about a harmful cult, or the right of a cult to suppress that information. I'm saying the latter causes the greater harm and so I'd be happy to answer any suit for damages they'd press. Your mileage may, does?, vary.
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  125

  Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

  by the girl next door in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now what is your stance?

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  Mephis

  Contemplating the idea of Watchtower owning the copyright of CoC only heightens the examination of just how intellectually honest we are when it comes to our position on copyright infringement which seems to be the topic of the month.

  
  WBTS can't charge for stuff but they do get heavily subsidised by my taxes. I'm more than happy to help spread things under their copyright already, and oops if it means they don't get website hits, so it's just more of the same. In any case, I really don't have an issue with making something available if the sole purpose of someone obtaining rights is to suppress it.
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  17

  Transfer of Bank Balances and Kingdom Halls.

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  two things related to ongoing comments regarding forgiving of loans / transfer of balances to the wtbs and the ownership of kingdom halls.

  firstly, i would argue that congregations don't care that bank balances have been transferred to the society.

  i would contend that people contribute to the preaching work, and that's it , so long as there is enough in the bank to maintain the hall with a reasonable reserve, then i doubt many would argue against it.

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  Mephis

  but why would the individual charities ever believe they own their own churches anyway? Publishers are just volunteers for a charity , they can no more claim ownership of a hall as can somebody that donates to a donkey sanctuary claim ownership of part of the stables. The society aren't 'stealing' anything as the publishers have never owned the hall. And even if they did any congregation would hand over ownership to the society if asked , if it's deemed to be needed

  Dub publishers are more akin to donkeys who pay their own board, paid for the stables to be erected in the first place and used to be able to decide when to change the straw.

  Does the CO have a better idea of the needs of a local congregation than those there? Does London Bethel? If all the money being contributed for the refurb goes to London and then they refuse to sanction the refurb, does that sound right? How about all the money saved up for a new hall and the go ahead now doesn't come through? Or the donations which paid for a local kingdom hall which gets sold and then those who donated now have to travel the 20 or 30 miles for meetings which they'd paid for a hall to avoid?

  Sure, the WBTS operates a hierarchical religion whilst pretending to be otherwise. It's that tension which is exposed when they suck all the money out of local bank accounts and then say they'll decide what happens with it. The local elders may nod it through, but they're trustees for their congregation and can be held account as a group for their actions as that.
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  23

  Seeking advise on going to college/university

  by joe134cd in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  here is the current situation of an acquaintance of mine.. age early 40s.

  currently lost her good paying job.. managed to find another reasonably quickly.

  although be it with not good money but with the possibility of been able to take an adult apprenticeship which would increase her pay over time.. she is also looking into going to university in the new year.. here is the question i have bearing in mind the above scenario.

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  Mephis

  Something which may be worth investigating are the bursaries/grants/scholarships available to your acquaintance. They may reduce the cost significantly and so change the calculation right from the outset.
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  71

  Battle over contamination at Watchtower site in Warwick

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.recordonline.com/article/20151214/news/151219671.

  battle over contamination at watchtower site in warwick.

  by hema easley .

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  Mephis

  Isn't there another similarly contaminated property in the UK which WT recently purchased?

  The new Bethel they're doing here in Britain (Temple Farm) is on land which was waste, and needing cleaning, but nothing like this. Talking more scrap cars and waste from that. They did an ecological report and then came out saying they only needed to bury the contaminated soil. http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Jehovah-s-Witnesses-pen-paper-Temple-Farm/story-23348188-detail/story.html

  
  

  
  Anyone aware of anything which points to the cost of them doing this clean-up?