Posts by Mephis

168

Where to draw the line: how Platonism haunts our discourse and the search for exorcism

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

in the discussion about race i adopted a position i am not entirely comfortable with.

i think there is a sense in which it is useful to distinguish categories of description that can be fruitfully defended (apples and bananas) and those that cannot (caucasian or other racial descriptions for example).

but there is a more fundamental sense in which i believe that everything is socially constructed, every single line you can think of.

Mephis

Reminds me of my Structuralism 101 course at university. Everything is relative, the act of reading changes meaning, etc etc. Fun stuff to play with, but real world application remains in that one is identifying inhibiting factors to information transmission rather than absolute limits.

So yes, one can find an arbitrary line for the first human, but there will be a point on the continuum where you can say "this is distinctive to the other" based on the differences. A t-rex is not a chicken after all. There's always room for further refinement and further knowledge, and there's always a good case not to overly stress differences which are little more than cosmetic or just extend the range in variation.

26

Michio Kaku: can universes form from "nothing" ?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlchmi0cc00

Mephis

The point where physics and philosophy are starting to collide again.

Useful article on problems with testing string theory: https://www.quantamagazine.org/20151216-physicists-and-philosophers-debate-the-boundaries-of-science/

32

legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

by cyberjesus in

let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

Mephis

I think it was Herd (?) who gave a fairly recent speech on how one shouldn't be able to drive but not be baptised. He also said that only toddlers and babies were covered by their parents' baptism. They may as well do infant baptism and give up on the pretense that an 8 year old can have any conception of how they may feel about being inside 10 years later.

17

My Experience with Wordly Guys

by LaurenM in

sorry, two posts in a day..but i need to vent something: so far my experience with "worldly" guys has not been the best 1. my first guy experience was with a dude who left state and never came back 2. a coworker asked me to netflix and chill and i did 3. a guy wanted to sext me all the time but never took me out on a date and i did 4. a guy who took me on a great date but then asked me up to his apartment immediately after and then didn't call me after 5. finally, another great date, until after the guy texted me asking for nude pics..told him no!

so basically i've concluded that i had been giving off a vibe that i had no self respect and that was confirmed by me allowing them to use me as a sex object..but i'm hoping that not all worldly guys are like this, and when i start acting like i have self respect, they will treat me like that too?

is that a good assumption?

Mephis

Sorry, two posts in a day..but I need to vent something: so far my experience with "worldly" guys has not been the best 1. My first guy experience was with a dude who left state and never came back 2. A coworker asked me to Netflix and Chill and I did 3. A guy wanted to sext me all the time but never took me out on a date and I did 4. A guy who took me on a great date but then asked me up to his apartment immediately after and then didn't call me after 5. Finally, another great date, until after the guy texted me asking for nude pics..told him no! So basically I've concluded that I had been giving off a vibe that I had no self respect and that was confirmed by me allowing them to use me as a sex object..but I'm hoping that not all worldly guys are like this, and when I start acting like I have self respect, they will treat me like that too? Is that a good assumption? I'm just so dumb when it comes to non-JW guys.

Neverendingjourney's right really. Set the boundaries where you're comfortable with having them and with what you want from the date/relationship. Perfectly fine to say 'no'. Impossible to know what vibes you give off without knowing you at all, but self-confidence and self-respect and self-worth are good things regardless. There is a learning process we go through outside the borg. We all make hiccups along the way. I was an absolute (male) slapper when I was first out - desperate, naive, and kid in candy store. Gets easier as you go along and figure out what you want. Trust your own judgement on things. You'll find though that people generally won't say 'no' if you're saying 'yes' in the right ways. So find the point where you're comfortable - whether that's a long drawn out tease and making them work ato be close to you, or whatever really. Just don't be down on yourself or be mean to yourself. If there's changes to make you can see would make you happier - go for it :) Good luck!

32

legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

by cyberjesus in

let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

Mephis

Not being able to talk to your parents is a form of mental abuse, there are legal issues there
In terms of consent, it's not only the minor expressing consent but also the parental consent too.
Parents consent is not necessary for baptism.

There's an argument perhaps there for damages in some jurisdictions, but from memory I believe the US precedent is that First Amendment goes over any claim for damages for being shunned. But that's not getting a baptism annulled?

Parental consent is implied. A counterexample would be where a non-believing parent petitions a court to prevent baptism whilst a minor. However, that will sometimes result in the judge making a call on whether the minor is mature enough to make the decision. eg a 10 year old was judged mature enough to decide to convert from Judaism to Christianity, whilst there's been one case here in Britain where a JW parent was allowed to continue to bring up the minor as a JW and get them baptised providing that in a medical emergency a blood transfusion was accepted.

32

legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

by cyberjesus in

let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

Mephis

When you are 10 years old, contrary to what the WT teaches, you are not old enough to make life-long commitments, you cant decide to join a religion, a political party you cant legally in many places sign a contract. You need your parents or legal guardians to do it for you or on your behalf.

Well your example in the OP implied parental consent? But it isn't a lifelong commitment. You can leave. They can't hold you to any promise made when you do leave. If this was a mobile phone contract, you'd be right. But it's not seen in that way in the law. It's a private members' club or a sports club. You join. You leave. Morally, absolutely you're right because the consequences of leaving some religions are so grim. But that's not the same thing as how the law sees it because ignoring people isn't illegal, and you're not forced to remain inside if you choose to leave. Just saying how it is really, fully empathise with the point you're making.

46

Should doctors tell JW patients that there is disagreement about Watchtower's blood policy.

by Lee Elder in

this has been a controversial issue among doctors and medical ethicists.

i think it basically comes down to the fact that physicians have a responsibility to establish the presence of informed consent.

is it really possible for a person to give informed consent if they are not accurately informed?.

Mephis

Have seen that correspondence before. Still not sure what I think. Slimboyfat covers several of the things which it makes me consider.

I have no problem with medical staff trying to find ways round the issue with treatments. And I really have no problem with even providing information to patients to present a different opinion. Just with this issue, I'm not sure how effective it will be to hand out something which the JW will label apostate, and trigger the local JW blood issue fire brigade to increased efforts.

This is built up as modern-day martyrdom for JWs so I'd think finding ways to ensure privacy for the patient/doctor discussion on options may be more effective to find out if there is flexibility for that individual beyond what Brooklyn permits. An honest chat on what blood is and whether they knew seems fine, but ultimately it's always going to be in the patient's hands without a court order.

32

legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

by cyberjesus in

let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

Mephis

if the wt refuses can this be taken to court?

Brass tacks with baptism is that in common law countries it's seen in the same way as joining your local swimming club or golf club. The courts can be asked to make a ruling if the rules of the club aren't followed, but, providing there's nothing illegal going on, then it won't interfere with the application of those rules.

In terms of consent, it's not only the minor expressing consent but also the parental consent too. You can't undo what's been done really, unless it's part of the rules of the club. It's not seen in the same way as a business contract. It's a consensual relationship which ends when it ends. They can't take you to court for not following your baptism vow, you can't take them to court for saying it.

14

ultimatum stop the practice of shunning or lose your charity status.

by joe134cd in

just curious what would wt do if a government said reform your policy on shunning or you will lose your charity status.

we will also be monitoring your reforms and there will be consequences if not brought up to our standards.

Mephis

They were meant to have functional child protection policy already, but is this the third time the Charity Commission are onto them about it?

They dissemble and doublespeak their way out of it. One of the big things which came out of ARC, for me, was outsiders who could penetrate through the hazy statements to how things were done and what needed to change.

Personally agree that the 'public good' test does need revision for charitable status. But I do feel slightly queasy about the thought of JWs doing cackhanded outreach work with vulnerable people, because that would seem a logical response to any changed requirements.

13

Has Watchtower financial strategy taken a very dark turn?

by slimboyfat in

as shepherdless pointed out on another thread, the watchtower business model of using free labour to produce and sell books and magazines for profit started to break down when charging for the literature ended in 1990, and has now begun disintegrating completely in the face of the internet and declining donations.

over this same period there has been a noted increase in hardline rhetoric on disfellowshipping and pushing early baptism.

might these hardline trends actually be related to their money woes?

Mephis

Agree with Xanthippe. Think it's a consequence of ramping up the control method rather than the intention of doing it. Don't think it makes it any less cynical or dark for being that. I never liked how they pushed the legacy stuff onto older people in the 80s and 90s, that part of it has been there for a while, and I felt for those who'd been told not to marry and/or not to have kids and who were left alone with just the borg to pass things onto.